Anonymous vs. non-anonymous complaint to licensure board 2

[photoengineer]

I recently discovered another engineer providing engineering services to a city works department without a license. He created a report on a hydroelectric plant, covering the condition of the piping, generating capacity, cost estimates to return plant to operational condition. He also specified a couple of upgrade options to increase the generating capacity by using newer turbines.

As a licensed professional engineer, I am obligated by my state laws to file a complaint and allow them to investigate. My question is do I do this anonymous or do it "loud and proud"? I would like to do this type of work, and also do contract work with the city in the future. Putting my name on the complaint form won't help me build a positive reputation because it's a small town and word will get around. However, being anonymous is also not the most ethical way to go.

Thoughts?

 

[patprimmer]

An anonymous complaint is a complaint from no one. If I get them I promptly deposit them in the round file.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[Ron]

Most boards treat the complaint as confidential info. I agree with Pat.

 

[zdas04]

I attended a class put on by our board last month and this was covered. Anonymous complaints are investigated, but not as a high priority--they don't have the staff to dig very deeply so if your complaint isn't obvious it isn't going to get much attention. Signed complaints that get to hearing (most don't) will result in the complainant being called to testify.

Sometimes, if the complainer comes across as someone who just complained to "steal the work" from the hard working, but unlicensed engineer it can hurt the complainer with potential clients. On the other hand if he comes across as someone interested in protecting public safety then he might do OK. Complaining is not without risks.

David

 

[Ussuri]

Complaining may not be without risks, but if you have a legal obligation does one not have to report it anyway? Is there a choice here?

 

[Ron]

While there is a statutory obligation to report violations of various engineering statutes, they are often not reported unless there is a significant egregious act or if there is discontent between the engineers.

In the described case, the municipality should be making a complaint as well, since in every state law I've read, there is a clear obligation for reports such as this to be signed and sealed by a licensed professional engineer.

The OP could go to the municipality and point out that they also violated the law and entice them to make the complaint or he could make the complaint directly.

 

[photoengineer]

Ron,

This board provides a copy of the complaint to the person accused in the complaint as part of the fact-finding mission.

David, I'm not even sure that the person is an engineer. Nothing in any articles that I can find state his qualifications, background, experience. All I can find is that he is a "consultant" for green energy. (My mistake in the original post - I called him an engineer but I don't know that is the case.)

 

[PeterStock]

It may be that the consultant has a PE working for him, see if you can see the drawings to see if they are stamped.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

http://www.infotechpr.net

 

[Ron]

photoengineer...then he's practicing engineering without a license. In that case, I certainly wouldn't care if he got a copy or not. Such activities take food off your table, compromise the profession and are potentially dangerous to the public.

 

[TheTick]

One would think a city works department would simply know better.

Personally, I don't entertain complaints from anyone lacking the intestinal fortitude to identify himself.

 

[msquared48]

Did the client require the services of a PE to provide this information by contract?

What did the RFP or RFQ ask for, assuming that there was one, and there should have been?

Do some further research here to avoid any embarrasment on your part.

Having worked for the City of Seattle in the past, it sounds real funny to me that the local jurisdiction would not have picked up on the PE requirement.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[zdas04]

It was funny in the class, most of the cases involved some amount of misconduct by the city. They wanted a school so they skipped inspections, etc. It is amazing how often the government skips following their own rules.

David

 

[BJC]

I don't think the guy is necessarly practicing engineering. More information is needed.
Is he making construction drawings?
The guy could be a retired operator of a hydro plant, a pipe fitter etc. As long as he is qualified and not really engineering.
He could be recomending new turbines based on general industry knowledge. He could be saying "I recommend an engineering study to evaluate the Acme Turbine. etc. etc.
Jupming in without all the facts will usually endear you to the board. If you kow whats going on and it's wrong sign your name.

 

[Ron]

Based on the OP's description, he was certainly practicing engineering. You don't have to produce drawings to practice engineering. It can come in the form of evaluations, recommendations, or opinions. To produce a written report of such certainly constitutes the practice of engineering. A common limitation on electrical engineering is anything greater than 600 amp capacity...this certainly qualifies.

 

[zdas04]

I hate to keep coming back to that class, but it was really good and really germane to this thread. I asked the Board enforcement guy what he thought should be stamped. I was expecting "drawings and calculations" and was suprised when he said "any document that conveys an Engineering opinion" even if there are no calculations or drawings included. When another guy pressed him on the defination of an "Engineering opinion", he rambled on a long time and I think what he said boiled down to something like "I can't define pornography, but I know it when I see it". Some of the examples he used in his ramble were Forensic Engineering reports, failure reports, and Engineering audits. I write a lot of reports that probably come under the heading "Engineering audits" (e.g., a review of the flows and pressures within a system with specific recommendations on how to improve performance) and I've never stamped one yet--I don't know if I will start now (if I do a field review in a state or country where I'm not licensed I can't stamp it, but the client has selected me to do the work because he can't find anyone closer). This one is tough for me.

David

 

[IRstuff]

Every state has slightly different definitions of what "engineer" means or what "practice engineering" means. If this is some sort of nepotismic deal, then the terms of the contract may be carefully tailored to skirt the letter of the law, particularly if the law has a very specific definition, ala:

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[BigInch]

If I didn't feel strongly enough about somthing not to first discuss it with the offender(s) and try to make it right, the city in this case too is an offender, or then complain to the authorities without signing my name to it if need be, I wouldn't bother getting my hair all messed up over it.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[RacingAZ]

Don't think for a moment that the consultant is dumb. Typically, consultants when they issue a report, they don't forget to include somewhere in the report a "get-out-of-jail" disclaimer that they are not practicing engineering by issuing the report or some sort of wording to that effect. It's clear cut if they are providing construction drawings but reports, anyone that claims to be an expert on the subject matter can write them in a way that don't portray them as practicing engineering.

If you haven't done yet, read the full report. You'll see what I mean. I'm sure it lacks the specifics and more on generalities with the technical recommendations.

 

[BigInch]

Then its a matter for the board to decide if the practice of engineering is involved or not. I'd suggest to arrange a meeting with both parties together and tell them that in your opinion its a violation of policy and that, if they don't correct their actions and withdraw the report voluntarily, you would be forced to make notification. That way everybody understands what you expect of them now and in the future.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[BJC]

Wher's the report? IS it on the web?
Sounds like Seattle City Light. They have been know to hire some of their retired buddys as consultants. If not retired buddies then other friends and relatives.
There's not a lot of people out there that know hydro. The ACOE has a lot, Bonneville power and TVA have some.
For the right kind of report I'de hire a retired operator, warn him about engineering and probabley get more information that I would from a real engineers report.