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Anti-Humans 30

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zdas04

zdas04

Mechanical
Jun 25, 2002
10,274
I've often referred to the environmental lobby as "anti-human". I just came across a document on the U.S. Department of Energy, Energy Information Administration (EIA) web site that supports that idea. The whole document is at Laramie Energy, but I've extracted a page from it that I've attached.

The attached is a series of quotes from noted environmentalists. I especially like the quote from John Davis (editor of Earth First) who said
Human beings as a species have no more value than slugs
Click to expand...
or
PETA said:
I do not believe that a human being has a right to life ... I would rather have medical experiments done on our children than on animals
Click to expand...

I think that the quotes in the attached fully support the idea that the law firms generally called "Environmental Non-Government Organizations (e-NGO)" are totally and completely against their own species.

David
 
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That's the one I remember, I just didn't have time to look this morning, thanks.

David
 
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Yea,
Thats the one.
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
 
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Interesting story about the chain saws. I do have a couple of questions:

Would you prefer that your kids handle a chain saw with or without protection?

What if I mentioned that one of those casualties was a dear friend of mine?
 
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My kid is a bomb disposal tech. A chainsaw with the kind of "protective equipment" (i.e., tennis shoes and tee shirts) that I used would be way safer than dealing with IED's in Afghanistan. When he and his brother were small, their mother tried to keep them "safe", thankfully they both thwarted her efforts at every turn and we did our full fair share of trips to the ER with bleeding kids and broken bones. They survived and I think are better people for the knocks and bangs that we couldn't prevent. My youngest cut down a tree in his back yard without any of the PPE that is currently recommended. I had no problem with it then and (other than I didn't want him cutting down my trees at all) I wouldn't have had a problem when he was a teen.

As to your friend, he's your friend, he would just be a name to me. We all enter this world with a death sentence and spend our whole lives with it hanging over our heads. I read the other day about a guy that survived a boulder falling on his car. I read about another guy that tripped on a paved walking path, hit his head, and died. One guy survives 2 months in a snowed in car. Another guy dies from hypothermia on a 50F day. If you tell me your friend died of injuries from "improperly" handling a chain saw I may feel sympathy for you and his family, but that would not cause me to start lobbying for mandated PPE.

David
 
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I have to say that I use a chain saw with minimal protection. Especially when up a tree, some PPE creates its own hazard. I wear tight fitting glasses with lenses in pristine condition if I am cutting overhead and I keep getting stuff in my eyes.

Part of safe use is the ability to react appropriately to audible and visible signals. The signals are better left unfiltered.

Being acutely aware is your greatest safety device.

Being nonchalant or complacent is your greatest danger.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
for site rules
 
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Don't worry about the PPE, and just hire someone else to do it.

Personal safety starts with knowing your limits.

After all the biggest chance most of us take is driving. And with cars that get the mandated 50MPG, none of them come stock with a roll cage, or those 5MPH bumpers the highway department uses. And what's with placing bus stops so close to the road.
 
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You know, I used to be something of a PPE doubter, and at heart still think HSE/OSHA get a bit carried away at times however...

I once managed to get hit in the eye by a practice golf ball (waffle ball type thing) and it was rather unpleasant. So since then I've tended to be a bit more thorough on PPE, especially eye protection naturally enough.

I mean, cowboys did have what today might be termed PPE - broad brimmed hats for sun shade, chaps to reduce injury to their legs...

Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​
 
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I don't want to tell anyone to not use safety equipment. But the cost of safety equipment, just might be, being used as a wedge to keep lower cost competers out of some business.

After all, how many people have all the recommended safery equipment for a wood shop. Most people have some, but not enough to satisfy OHSA.

For me, if I can't buy it at home depo, I don't have it.
 
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You make and interesting point, Cranky. A lot of regulation and licensing is nothing more than existing businesses using the power of government to keep competition out.
 
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cranky: people make a big distinction between volutarily assumed risk, and risks they are forced to take as part of their employment, or risks imposed on them by the actions or inactions of others.

Driving is by far the most dangerous thing we do every day, but because we're behind the wheel, we feel safe because we have the illusion of control over our destiny. The same people who skydive will find a 1/1000000 lifetime potential increased risk of cancer due to the actions of some nearby business to be an unacceptable risk.

What drives me crazy about PPE is that it is just assumed that using the PPE represents no increased risk versus not using it, and that is seldom if ever true. Safety glasses with side shields impair my peripheral vision, increasing my risk of tripping and falling, and especially of having car crashes if I forget to take them off again before getting behind the wheel. Hard hats increase, rather than decrease, the number of times per day I bump my head- and while my head is protected, my neck begs to differ. When we take the thought out of the process of selecting PPE appropriate for a task, we may improve compliance with arbitrary rules, but I'm not convinced we make anyone safer except perhaps the company lawyer.
 
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just like pads and helmets in football give the misbegotten feeling of invincability
 
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Other than the effects of repeated concussions & post match boat races what's the excuse for thinking that in Rugby then?;-)

Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​
 
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Rugby is a game played between sadists, masochists and poor individuals hornswoggled into the game.
If you play more than twice you are one of the former.
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
 
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Moltenmetal,
Good points. I'd like to add one--fall protection. I have never put on fall protection that I didn't trip over the damn lanyard. Once I was 15 ft off the ground, tripped over the lanyard and landed flat on my face on the (luckily) top of the structure I was working on. It hurt bad, but if I'd fallen off the edge (with fall protection) I would have certainly slammed the side harder (due to the angle of the fall). On the other hand, if I'd been up there (like I'd been 50 times before the policy went into effect) without fall protection I wouldn't have felt like a spavined duck and I would have looked after my own safety and would have gotten the job done faster and safer.

I truly hate it when companies try to lower their risk with policies rather than having people doing the work stop and assess the task and pick appropriate PPE for the task. That risks someone (maybe one in a million, maybe one in a dozen, we'll never know) erring on the wrong side of the line and getting hurt. Before the Nanny Society took over, serious injuries were pretty rare, I would venture that on my jobs they were less frequent before the overindulgence in PPE than after (the only lost time accident I ever had to report on my projects was an eye injury on a guy that felt like he could get right on top of a peanut grinder with safety glasses that didn't fit too well).

I do know that the ONLY time I'm safer with fall protection is when I'm in a man basket with nowhere to walk.

David
 
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Can someone tell me how steel toed shoes are better for me than a pair of shoes which take the shock out of walking in a graveled yard? No I was not in a construction zone, but it is required. And man do my lower legs hurt.
 
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cranky108 (Electrical)
From years of having to wear the dammed things I can tell you that they lure you into a false sense of security.
Then when you wear your street shoes, you have a tendancy not to jerk your foot out of the way when something falls.
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
 
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Admittedly they can get carried away but safety regulations and equipment aren't for the cautious and toughtful among us.
I walked through a factory and watched someone changing a light bulb on a 30' ceiling. The fork truck lifted him 15' the last 8' was a stack of pallets he was standing on...........

Comprehension is not understanding. Understanding is not wisdom. And it is wisdom that gives us the ability to apply what we know, to our real world situations
 
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