Anyone prefer government to industry?

[TomLaxey]

hi, can anyone sympathise with my position and give a point of view?

I spent my first 5yrs of engineering within govt research, which was great and I learned a lot, but by the end, we were monitoring contracts, and I got frustrated at just looking at other people's work, and decided to move over into Industry. I've been doing the job, but I just can't settle. The work is nowhere near as interesting as I'd hoped! I guess I was spoiled by all those years of thinking about the concepts, and fundamentals. I guess when you're engineering a product, you chase the details, which is pretty hard going, but I'm finding it a bit dull!

As well as the job, I guess I've found it hard to fall in love with a business, whereas in govt the staff are motivated differently.

Has anyone else made this government vs. industry switch, and what do you think?

 

[mechengdude]

I have never been a government employee but have worked as a government contractor at first teir suppliers, as a contractor on research projects, and in industry manufacturing a product.

Definetley a big difference. My least favorite was working for industry where we designed and sold widgets. The value placed on the engineering staff was extremly low. The staff of engineers was basically viewed as just one more over head cost the bean counters would like to eliminate. Hard to blame them when the industry is competeing with forgien companies paying their workers pennies on the dollar. High stress and average pay seemed to be the norm in the industry/manufacturing world. The one upside was you had to sort out all the little details of how the product worked but once you figured that out then it starts to get boring quick.

Working as a government contractor for a first teir supplier or in research has been the most fun and most rewarding. Getting to build a few prototypes and perform real engineering analysis and perform validation testing seems to be the norm. The pay was/is very good from my perspective.

 

[spongebob007]

Besides the points mentioned already, I don't have to constantly live in fear of the bean counters sending my job to some third world crap hole. My company only employs U.S. citizens.

 

[dvd]

I worked at a government-owned contractor-operated facility and went to work in private industry. I didn't realize how good some aspects were and how bad other aspects were. I would like to work at a government facility again, but the opportunity doesn't seem to come up.

 

[IRstuff]

Hah, we can't even export within our own company, as parts of it are US-based and others are outside! We're so convoluted that even some US-based parts of our company are off-limits.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[GregLocock]

mechengdude:"Hard to blame them when the industry is competeing with forgien companies paying their workers pennies on the dollar. " I sympathise. We find the appallingly low pay rates of US engineers are used by our Australian management as reasons not to pay us more. Please resolve this.

Cheers

Greg Locock

I rarely exceed 1.79 x 10^12 furlongs per fortnight

 

[berkshire]

TomLaxey (Aerospace)
One thing you have to realize about working in a government position, is that you have to have "real" workers working in industry to support your job.
If jobs keep getting exported at the rate they are, there will be nobody left working to pay you.
B.E.

 

[mechengdude]

Greg - I took care of that this morning. please look for an increase in you pay check next week. You're welcome.

 

[Tabaluga]

It would not be fair to generalize.
I think it all depends on the actual circumstances at hand. You could just as easily land a great job in the private sector and a crappy one in the public, and vice versa. I have worked for both, and both have their pros and cons when you analyze them. The public sector tends to be less hectic and stressful and generally gives more of a chance to do the job properly. Gov't posts also tend to be more secure, are more rewarding in terms of pension contributions paid time off. The downs sides are that gov't procedures can be annoying and the bureacracy and the way that spending is allocated very frustrating.

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." (A. Einstein)

 

[TomLaxey]

hi, thanks for the replies so far.

I think that for me, a first significant issue is that of aligning myself with the goals of a business (to deliver on contracts, and make profit), and not those a of govt R&D office (public service).

Essentially those of my colleagues in business need to deliver their work. That means there is little time for lengthy write-ups, and questioning assumptions, looking at wider trends etc. These are things that I enjoyed doing, because I think these are pretty esssential to doing a thorough job.

The other aspect is that of organisation. In industry staff seem to adopt a specialisation early on and pretty much stick to it. In fact, some relish the idea of being 'the man who does this .. or that..' . There is a strong culture of 'expertise', but not based objectively on proven higher-knowledge/qualification, but more on experience and commitment to the business. This was a surprise to me!

I guess I see myself as more of an 'analytical generalist' - able to work on several problems by understanding the underpinning mathematics, rather than the 'engineering know-how' (the latter doesn't really interest me!). I am 'talking' myself into thinking the govt R&D set-up, without it's commercial pressures, and disciplinary barriers if the good place, but I'm still thinking it thro.

 

[IRstuff]

Tom,

I'm in aerospace, and I think that what you've just said applies to private industry as well. While there are those that are specialists, we still have people that see "the big picture" and have an understanding of how the entire system is supposed to work.

Reminds me of a Design Review walkthrough, that started with the VP of Engineering asking, "I see charts about the CCAs, the mechanical, the software, the 'ilities, but where's the charts that say this system is supposed to do?" I'm that guy in our organization, so there may well be a spot for you in other companies.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[HgTX]

There have been a few threads on this topic in the past; maybe someone better than I am at searching the Eng-Tips archive can pull them up.


Advantages of the public sector:

A1. You're almost always the client. You're not selling, you're buying. This means a more relaxed you. In the private sector, in every single professional encounter, you're representing your firm and having some effect on its marketability, even if your official title doesn't have the word "sales" anywhere in it.

A2. In most engineering positions, bottom line isn't as big a factor in decision-making as it is in private industry. It's not about billable hours. It's about making sure that contractors follow the specifications.

A3. Benefits are good, hours are good. This can make up for the crappy pay. (@Greg: appallingly low pay for government workers drags down pay scale for all civil engineers.)

A4. Job security is often better than in the private sector.

A5. There are a lot of people who choose government work because of A3, so you get to be around people who understand that real life is important too, and it's not all about being a workaholic. This is healthy.

A6. Working for a DOT can get you some really cool and varied experience.


Disadvantages of the public sector:

D1. Despite A2 & A4 above, financial situations do get very weird, because you're at the whim of legislators who have no idea what it is you do. At the federal level, you can have a couple months of no funding at all, during which you do collect a paycheck but all your programs are up in the air. At the state level, it's usually not quite as weird but it still can get weird. A financial crisis in the public sector has a different flavor from a financial crisis in the private sector. It is much weirder, and has a lot less to do with the kind of economics you learned about in college.

D1a. Because it is politicians who set the budget, and people who appeal to politicians who are at the top levels of your agency who implement the budget, don't expect a lot of logic in financial decisions. If the legislators are fussy about line item A this year, expect some cost-cutting meaures in A that might increase B by more than the cuts to A, because no one in power is looking at the big picture. It's all about doing whatever The Bosses (politicans and also the travelling public calling the hotline to complain about real or perceived mismanagement or malfeasance) have their attention on this fiscal year. Next fiscal year the priorities will have rearranged.

D2. As a public servant, you will be subject to much more stringent ethics regulations. Comps that you might legally and ethically accept as a private sector employee might be illegal for government workers. There are some state agencies that won't let their workers accept so much as a cup of coffee or a logo ballpoint. (Some agencies are more reasonable and understand marketing toys and business lunches.) I know of at least one agency that doesn't allow its employees to park state vehicles at restaurants. (See D1a; it costs a lot more to order in. But see hotline reference above as well.) There may be other policies that basically assume that you and all your peers are a bunch of goddam crooks just waiting for the opportunity.

D3. Pay is crappy compared to what you'll see your buddies at the same career phase getting in the private sector. My starting salary was something like 3/4 what my classmates were starting at who went to fancy consulting firms. But see A3.

D4. A5 above is cool, but government work also, partly because of the bottom-line issue (or lack thereof), makes for a high tolerance for mediocrity or even incompetence. It's damn hard to get fired from a government job. And the focus on "perception, perception, perception" (see D1a and D2) means that in some offices what's valued most is not innovation and excellence, but keeping one's head down.


All in all, I am not at all sorry I took a government job. Your mileage, as they say, may vary. If the job looks cool, take it.

Hg

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[KENAT]

"You're not selling, you're buying. This means a more relaxed you."

Funny, the thing by far causing me the most stress is trying to buy something.

I phone inteviewed for a US govt job (DOD/Air Force) just a couple of Fridays ago and they claimed that their pay had actually improved over the last few years to me comparable to private industry. I didn't get the position so can't tell you if that's true but there you go.

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