Are all engineers burning out or is it possible NOT to be overworked?! 14

[PaperPlane]

Hey everyone, I'd like some opinions on this from engineers from various organisations please.

I used to work with a very big marine construction company as a graduate trainee and then as a fully fledged engineer for 4 years. I was told I was good at my job, but never felt as confident as I would've liked. My main issue was that I was straight out of uni and wanted to revise my university notes to keep the theory fresh in my mind (my work was very theoretical). However at the end of every working day I was so exhausted I couldn't bare to revise.

In my final year in this job I was doing the work of 3 people and was set unrealistic deadlines. When I mentioned this to supervisors they agreed, but just said: 'do the best you can!' It was the typical overworked-employee scene: lots of overtime, sometimes weekend work, and although my salary did reflect this extra work I felt completely drained and eventually had to take sick leave from all the stress caused.

I have since left engineering and moved into the public sector, which I enjoyed for a short while, but more recently feel very disheartened that my skills with numbers and logic are not being utilised in any way. I miss the satisfaction of solving a complicated engineering problem. There is some small element of nostalgia creeping in here, but I do feel very strongly that I want to work with numbers again, perhaps in another engineering role that is not so draining.

So I bet you can guess what my next question is: is this the norm? Surely there are engineering companies out there that take care of their employees and discourage overworking, don't overload them with projects as soon as they realise they're good at their jobs?

Is it possible to re-enter engineering and find organisations that won't destroy my health as the last one did? I am willing to retrain or go in at a lower salary/lower level position to return to engineering, if the company is right.

What do you all think? *fingers crossed* Give me some hope!

 

[rbulsara]

You are the only one who can control how much you work and your work habits. Work to live and not live to work. Changing job may not help if you keep over working yourself. Learn to leave the job as prescribed time of end of your day or shift. If you did not set the deadlines, do not worry about them. Just make sure that you put in your requisite time and effort, such as 8 hr/day or whatever the norm is.

Regardless of what one may claim, no employer can force an employee to do overtime. Although, if you keep giving them more without asking, they will not complain or reward.

Rafiq Bulsara

http://www.srengineersct.com

 

[trey25624]

It sounds like you maybe need to build your confidence. In this economy a lot of us have to take on more responsibilities, some loss in salary, etc. But I firmly believe that employers that take advantage of their employees like this are going to be the first ones to lose their best employees.

It also sounds like you have a lot of talent and are knowledgable. Don't take something that you think is less than you deserve. Think big and take aim. You're not going to get anywhere unless you aggresively pursue what you feel you deserve. Again, I think you're just in a situation a lot of us are in. But there are good empoloyers out there that value their employees. You just have to find that situation, be confident, and stick up for yourself. Alright I'm off my soap box!

 

[Twoballcane]

Where are you?

“So I bet you can guess what my next question is: is this the norm?”
Yes in today’s economy. With layoffs people are taking on more work.

“Surely there are engineering companies out there that take care of their employees”
You are your own company with in the company. You have to take care of yourself, you’re an adult now, so you have to craft your own career path, it is not the responsibility of the company.

“and discourage overworking, “
Discourage overworking? Sorry, but that is how you move to your next position. How do you get “above and beyond job responsibility” on your review if you don’t do more than what is expected of you?

“don't overload them with projects as soon as they realise they're good at their jobs?”
Sorry, if you are the subject matter expert, you will get all the work that is applicable to your specialty. Just be glad that you have become an asset to the company.

“Is it possible to re-enter engineering and find organisations that won't destroy my health as the last one did?”
Yes there are, you have to find them.

“I am willing to retrain or go in at a lower salary/lower level position to return to engineering, if the company is right. ”

You have the experience so use it. In today’s economy, you may get the right position, but the lower salary.


Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[MikeHalloran]

Take inventory of your skills and seek fair compensation based on them. If training is offered, that's fine, but don't start from the position that you are in any way inadequate.

Consider contracting. It has some nice things going for it:

You are hired for a specific job and usually for a specific duration.

If they want you to work overtime, you will be paid for it.

You get to stay out of office politics.

No matter how awful the job turns out to be, it has an end.

Contract houses today often provide benefits, and they are often superior to benefits offered by their customers.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[MikeHalloran]

I almost forgot this: When downsizing/ rightsizing/ involuntary terminations come around, contractors almost always get a couple of days notice. Direct hires just get whacked in the face with a dead fish.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[PaperPlane]

I suppose I did not get across that my previous company had a history of overworking its employees and this work ethic seemed to be ingrained into the organisation. Yes I can take control to some extent (I did fight back but it was difficult, pressure was coming in from everywhere).

Additionally, I'm not looking for career progression just yet. I don't want to be overworked, simple. I'm willing to stay in the same position for a long time if it simply meant I get to not be overworked.

And the reason I say I am willing to retrain is not because I don't value my skills, its because the work I was doing previously was very very narrow in scope. I simply can't walk into most engineering jobs without some additional training, given my limited experience.

 

[MikeHalloran]

If you graduated from engineering school, you are qualified to _start_ any engineering jobs within your specialty. Nobody expects you to arrive with all the local knowledge you'll need. ... well, except for the HR weasels who write job ads nowadays. Basically they ask for 'the guy who just left us, except without the things that caused him to leave'. What they'll settle for is negotiable.

You're right, you can't change an outfit's collective mentality. If an interviewer _brags_ about how everybody there works 55+ hours for 40 hours pay, it would be rude to just flat call him an idiot. Better to end the interview with a polite excuse about how it's not exactly what you're looking for. Interviews work both ways.

It's okay to tell _us_ that you feel a little less than perfectly qualified for every possible opportunity, and that you want to have a life outside of work. Just don't put that stuff in a cover letter.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[casseopeia]

Yes, you may find an engineering position that does not have the meat grinder corporate culture, but it is likely to be a smaller organization. I had lots of free time at my last job, right before I got whacked in the face with a dead fish.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[KENAT]

I've been told not to work so long on a few occasions, comments about how efficiency drops etc.

Of course, they still wanted their projects completed on time though for the most part.

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(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[ajack1]

There are so many variables in all this, clearly some companies do take better care of their employees than others.

Business generally works on supply and demand and whoever is in the strongest position can negotiate the best deal, it is not just employees that are having a rough time at the minute, companies are having to take on jobs with very tight lead times and low margins in order to stay in business, of course they have the option as do employees to just walk away and do something else.

If you come to the conclusion that ALL engineering companies are unreasonable then it is probably your expectations that are unreasonable and not every company in the world.

What sector you work in also has a major impact, the area I live in has all the major F1 teams except Ferrari and I know a good few people who work for them and whilst it can be a dream job for some especially the petrol heads the burn out rate is very high. Sorry but you won’t have an engine for Sundays grand prix because it is five o clock and I am going home now doesn’t really cut it.

As with most things in life some things you can change some things you cannot, expel all your energy on things you can change.

 

[pennpiper]

Item Description Hrs/Day
Time to Sleep Actual bed rest 8.0
Time to Work On the job 8.0
Time to Travel Commute to and from work (1 hour each way) 2.0
Time to get ready for work (Bathe, shave, dress, etc. 0.5
Time for morning meal With family if possible 0.5
Time for evening meal With family if possible 1.0
Time for lunch at work Normal one half hour 0.5
Time with family Homework, bath baby, shopping,. 2.0
Time with spouse Maintain that relationship 1.5
Time for that extra work "Overtime" 0.0

Total hours listed per day = 24.0
Total hours in a day = 24.0

See, you don't have time to work Overtime.

 

[kelowna]

In my line of work I have always thought that there are only two situations possible. Overworked or unemployed.

 

[Lion06]

I think most companies (especially now) expect a lot more (maybe too much) from their employees. Most are of the mindset that we should all feel lucky to have a job and do anything at all to make sure we keep it.

I've been working a LOT of hours for the last 6-9 months (50-60 per week every single week). I feel angry sometimes knowing 1. How much extra rime they're getting out of me at 2. Such a cheap rate to begin with. If I didn't get to work on such cool projects and as much autonomy as I do I would have moved on long ago.

The way to make sure that you're not being taken advantage of is to make sure you get paid for OT.

 

[DannyGlover]

Am I the only one that thinks the profession pays poorly for the amount of instability you have to deal with? I attend conferences, spend a considerable amount of time outside of work taking course and reading industry literature. I love engineering and the autonomy you can have but it isn't right when an electrician or techician, (no offense) get paid more per an hour than an engineer who has to assume in most cases much more liability.

I love engineering and there are cool jobs that I would kill for but I would not be surpised if I decided to just piss on all of it in my 40s to start up my own business. Please don't reply with you shouldn't go into engineering for the money. Engineering is not a civil service. It is a profession and should be respected and rewarded as such.

 

[moltenmetal]

Only you can determine how many hours you work.

Work addicts, and people who are insecure in their skills, will find excuses to stay late at whatever job they find for themselves. Most employers will take that extra benefit without noticing, much less compensating this extra time or even saying "thank you".

Take it from a recovered work addict: figure out what's driving you to work those extra hours. Fix that. Nobody else will fix it for you.

If you can't fix it, find a place that at least compensates you for the extra effort, in whatever way they can. Or take that work ethic and put it to work for yourself in your own business.

 

[ischgl99]

You're right, you can't change an outfit's collective mentality. If an interviewer _brags_ about how everybody there works 55+ hours for 40 hours pay, it would be rude to just flat call him an idiot. Better to end the interview with a polite excuse about how it's not exactly what you're looking for. Interviews work both ways.

That is so true, I interviewed with a company a couple years ago that only gave 2 weeks vacation no matter how many years experience the candidate has. The owner of the company then says you can get comp time for any hours over 50 per week and some guys get a couple extra weeks vacation each year. I did the math and said, no thanks!

 

[HgTX]

Not too long ago I was chatting with someone (a principal in a firm) who was looking to hire a new employee, and had a candidate they liked, but they were concerned because said candidate (nonsupervisory) would probably "only" be willing to work 50 hours per week on salary.

There's a level in a company at which one should have the "do whatever it takes" mentality, and there's a level at which one does one's delineated job and goes home to the kids and/or dog. One would hope that salaries at those different levels would be commensurate with the level of responsibility and commitment. I assume, however, that that is not always the case. Salaries and other such expectations are set by people in charge, people so personally invested in the success of the firm that they live and breathe it, and they don't understand why anyone else would not be the same way.

In a bad enough market, even the people at the bottom have a deep personal investment in "doing whatever it takes".

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[moltenmetal]

Anybody who is truly willing to put in "whatever it takes" to a job will soon realize that it will take whatever you will give. And it will take it, without even noticing, saying "thank you", or compensating you properly for the effort.

No, you need to decide what you CAN give, consistently, without creating a deficit in your mental or physical health, your relationships etc., and give that. Actually no, that's not true either- you need to SELL that, not give it. You are working for a living, not making a donation to a charity.

Regardless what level you're at in an organization, there's a difference between working for a salary and accepting a life of indentured servitude in the name of professionalism. Unfortunately there are many people in our profession who don't understand the distinction.

Unless you're a sole proprietor or in a partnership with only a few partners, if the company rises and falls based solely on your uncompensated overtime, it's in serious trouble. If you're a work addict, you need to give your head a shake and get over yourself: you need to realize that you are at the same time both MORE important to yourself and to your family, and LESS important to your employer, than you currently imagine.

 

[rbulsara]

agreed with moltenmetal, again...

"Doing whatever it takes" does not include working for free or at the detriment of yourself or your family.

Working uncompensated overtime or even consistent paid overtime does not prove your loyalty, just that you are a workoholic and cannot manage your time or work.

Rafiq Bulsara

http://www.srengineersct.com