Are ex-graduates second best to ex-apprentices? 1

[dkjfnvfd]

I've worked for five years since graduating with a BEng in EEE the UK.

In that time I've worked for three companies in numeric protection relay R&D, a hospital designer, and now I'm an electrical engineer in nuclear.

Everywhere I go, and even in pubs and among my family when we talk about work there's a consensus that 'time-served' people are superior engineers.

I recently had a conversation with the woman charged with engineer retention at my current employer, who let slip she only cares about retaining time-served people.

I have mates at work who came in through the graduate scheme, they have complained a few time they are paid less than the time-served engineers, even when the time served ones have worked in that capacity for less time.

I also recently went on an HV operation safety course where I let slip I had a degree and from there on I was singled out to answer questions and do calcs every single time.

I am beginning to feel that I will always be singled out and seen as 'second best' in engineering. I am starting to regret not working in IT or finance. There seems to also be an issue where people who don't know me treat me like a trainee because I 'look' younger than I am.

I am sure I do a good job, I have tens of millions in cost avoidance and savings to my name. I understand the equipment I am responsible for and often have to explain things or correct engineers with 20+ years experience ahead of me. I'm not difficult or abrasive, people like me. Although I have to admit I do spend a lot of time thinking 'Jesus Christ why don't you know this'.

 

[CWB1]

I legally fired a steam locomotive, my training was having the water glass pointed out, a few tries to get the feel of starting the feed water injector and being told to adjust the fuel oil so that the smoke wasn't black.....this is all about being a skilled workman via on the job experience and there was no certification involved.

By your description, no you didnt do so legally. Under the close supervision of a licensed engineer who also has the appropriate boiler licenses, you may have legally shoveled some coal or other basic operations but doing so unsupervised violates quite a few laws in both the US and Canada. In both the historical steam and tractor worlds, every few years we have unlicensed folks getting caught operating uncertified boilers or other equipment, often after someone is seriously hurt. In reality, there is quite a bit of formal classroom education and testing required in addition to OJT necessary to legally operate a locomotive, much less a steam loco.

Historically speaking, train engineers were expected to work alongside roundhouse crews on the repair and tuning of their locomotives well into the early 20th century, as well as fabricating replacement parts and even the tools and machinery to do so. In the 19th century that usually meant designing or at least copying parts as well. Stationary engineers historically were in the same boat, when something broke they designed, fabricated, and replaced broken parts themselves. Moreover, if you travel overseas amongst other former British colonies today you'll often find "engineer" commonly used instead of the American term "machinist," "XYZ Engineering Works Ltd" for example would be a machine shop not a design firm.

As for the rest, that's not solely an issue in engineering; doctors are being assaulted with nurse practioners who are licensed to do most things a doctor can, but with no medical school or even advanced degree, and only 6 months of OTJ training, while doctors require a minimum of 4 years of medical school plus a minimum of 3 years of residency OTJ training.

To sit for the NP exam requires a MS and years of relevant experience. There are also various methods allowing students to complete a residency during med school before becoming fully accredited doctors.

 

[mfgenggear]

first of all excellent topic.

first mistake : no one should be superior or better because of a degree, don't make this I am better or not.
a degree shows that person spent the time and effort to get an education and pass. and is a plus.
second mistake: tradesmen will and can save your ass, work with them and learn from them, what they have to teach you
is not in any books, and years of service and experience will be an asset if you work with them.
this will make you a better engineer. and in future will strengthen your knowledge and expertise.
third mistake : out of college your a rookie. all you have is college education. and you will not start to know
until 5 years in the same business and product.
have close group of fellas of all disciplines and accept their advice then make your own.
finally : don't expect most tradesmen to know what you know. education in the field of engineering
is very intense, and people lives depend on your skill, knowledge.
respect is given, you will get respect in return.
most can do the talk, and talk is cheap. but ahh do the walk and you have done it.
and it takes time and a very willing with continued learning basically all your life.