Are these spacers needed between roof trusses in my attic

[Yrok]

I am trying to add additional storage to my attic and these 2x4s are at an awkwardheight.. Are the circled 2x4s needed? They look to me like they were for getting proper spacing between the trusses and nothing more. There are 3 nails shot diagonally through the bottom of the horizontal 2x4s into the vertical trusses. If they are by some chance structural, can I cut them out and reinstall them higher?

Thanks for the help.

 

[ANE91]

Silly structure; attics are for storage.

Hire a structural engineer or decide for yourself to gamble and cut it. Nobody here is going to risk their license by telling you it’s ok to hack wood without inspecting the building. Moreover, do you really want to be the person that defends this action with, “well, the internet told me it was ok”? This isn’t tele-engineering for homeowners. Answers cost money!

 

[jhnblgr]

The open area is designed for use not the areas beyond. Don’t load past the current floor area.

 

[XR250]

They maybe there to reduce the buckling length of the truss webs as would be noted on the original truss drawings. Not a great installation but probably doing something. You could likely remove them is you sistered up each affected web. I would be careful of hoarding a bunch of stuff up there though.

 

[phamENG]

No, you can't just cut them out. There would be reinforcement required. I'm of XR's opinion and they are certainly necessary. There are other things that can be done, but as ANE91 said that would need to be decided by a structural engineer on site and being paid for their services.

 

[LittleInch]

Those vertical struts are actually quite thin and slender and in certain roof loadings my guess is that they are under compression forces. Without them, those long slender bits of wood can easily bend and buckle. Once one bends then more load goes onto its neighbour which then bends more ....

They are probably at mid height to reduce the strut length for buckling. Removing them is a bad idea. Moving them is equally bad as now one length exposed to bending is longer than the other and you don't know what the critical length is.

Be careful how much load you add to the loft floor. Modern trusses are designed to the minimum sizes and anything more than maybe20 psf could easily lead to overload. Unless you've got clear designed load limits from the truss designer, be very careful. IMHO.

 

[Yrok]

Thank you to those who actually provided constructive feedback and not just insults. The only things getting stored up there are empty boxes (Big screen TVs and other large expensive electronics are much easier to safely transport in their original packaging) and seasonal decor stored it plastic storage bins, i.e. nothing I can't easily and safely carry up the attic ladder myself. The existing space provides access to my air conditioner units and I don't want to block this access with storage bins. I intend to lay down 2x6's across the existing ceiling joists, add additional loose insulation between the 2x6s and topping with plywood without compressing the added insulation. A couple of the 2x4s in the picture are just at an awkward height to allow access to the additional storage area. I will add 2x4's roughly 1 ft higher than those in the way before cutting them out and may also add additional ones at a lower height which should more than make up for what is there. I'll leave the others unchanged.

 

[LittleInch]

The other way is possibly to use loft insulation board stilts like these https://www.ecohome-insulation.com/product/loft-storage-stilts/ which reduce the weight of the floor. A bit fiddly, but worth it as you can add another 150mm insulation very easily. Moving them by a foot should be fine, but it's at your risk. In general don't mess about with trusses - they are designed to fine margins and shouldn't be messed about with.

These forums are not really meant for non engineering / homeowner type questions so some people get a bit guarded as we don't want to be seen as a source of free engineering based on nothing more than a couple of photos. If you're aerospace it's maybe like someone with their own plane asking you if they can cut a few holes in the fuselage??

Next time maybe try the hobbies forum.

 

[XR250]

Thank you to those who actually provided constructive feedback and not just insults.

I did not see any insulting replies. Somehow you filtered them as such.

 

[Yrok]

I did not see any insulting replies. Somehow you filtered them as such.

My comment wasn't directed at you and I appreciated your response.

 

[GaStruct]

Web bracing should be installed as a continuous 2x across multiple webs on the narrow face. It's possible the framers installed it wrong/misinterpreted the shops.

 

[Yrok]

Web bracing should be installed as a continuous 2x across multiple webs on the narrow face. It's possible the framers installed it wrong/misinterpreted the shops.

So it may be better to install a 2x4 across the whole section a bit higher up rather than just replacing them in between as they are currently installed?

 

[Greenalleycat]

Thank you to those who actually provided constructive feedback and not just insults. The only things getting stored up there are empty boxes (Big screen TVs and other large expensive electronics are much easier to safely transport in their original packaging) and seasonal decor stored it plastic storage bins, i.e. nothing I can't easily and safely carry up the attic ladder myself. The existing space provides access to my air conditioner units and I don't want to block this access with storage bins. I intend to lay down 2x6's across the existing ceiling joists, add additional loose insulation between the 2x6s and topping with plywood without compressing the added insulation. A couple of the 2x4s in the picture are just at an awkward height to allow access to the additional storage area. I will add 2x4's roughly 1 ft higher than those in the way before cutting them out and may also add additional ones at a lower height which should more than make up for what is there. I'll leave the others unchanged.

It's not insulting to point out that you're trying to obtain free engineering advice and put liability on random internet strangers. This is a forum for engineers to connect and discuss engineering problems.

As an aerospace engineer I'm sure you would be pissed off to find someone posting a design of yours online for feedback to remove an inconvenient strut. And even more insulted to find that OP had just decided to take the advice most convenient to them to modify it.

 

[XR250]

Web bracing should be installed as a continuous 2x across multiple webs on the narrow face. It's possible the framers installed it wrong/misinterpreted the shops.

It also needs to be kicked off to something solid occasionally - which happens never.

 

[Yrok]

It's not insulting to point out that you're trying to obtain free engineering advice and put liability on random internet strangers. This is a forum for engineers to connect and discuss engineering problems.

As an aerospace engineer I'm sure you would be pissed off to find someone posting a design of yours online for feedback to remove an inconvenient strut. And even more insulted to find that OP had just decided to take the advice most convenient to them to modify it.

My house is a tract home. The framing and trusses were delivered on a truck and thrown up in less than 48 hours by cheap laborers without any oversite from the "engineer" that designed them. There are lots of completely random pieces of 2X4s throughout the attic (some cantilevered off trusses with nothing but nails and attaching one side and completely free floating on the other side) that I'm sure served some kind of purpose during the build process (temporarily holding something in place while waiting for next piece or something to stand on during the build) but serve no purpose in the completed build. As I do not have a background in home construction or structural engineering, I simply asked an "Engineering Tips" forum if they looked structural or not. I did not ask anyone to do any engineering work (calculating loads, stresses, safety factors, etc.) nor did I ask anyone to "put their license on the line". A simple, "yea they're possibly structural, best to leave them be" was more than sufficient to answer the question I posed.

 

[RontheRedneck]

My best guess is that those blocks are a half-assed attempt to brace the web. But it's difficult to say for sure without seeing the original truss design. They're not standard industry practice, and that's not an acceptable way to brace a web. .

As someone else said, those trusses are not designed for storage load outside of the room.

 

[BAretired]

I cannot say that the as-built trusses are adequate to sustain the expected load. I strongly suspect that some of the longer web members require lateral bracing, but as already noted, the bracing shown on the photos appears to be unacceptable. An engineering review would be prudent.