Are these trends happening anywhere else? 34

[DayRooster]

I am noticing some trends that are making my head scratch. Maybe it’s just my region but I’m curious if others are seeing similar trends. First off I’m a structural engineer with 12 years experience in the US. I am happy where I’m currently employed (hasn’t anyways been the case). That being said I know they are trying to hire other structural engineers (entry, mid and senior) and it has been tough. Really hurting for some mid-level engineers. I have talked to the few colleagues that are still in the profession and it’s the same situation at their current employers. I looked online and the local job listings are flooded with job after job in structural engineering (mainly mid level and senior). Also, all I see are good structural engineers, that I know, either retiring or leaving the profession after 5-10 years. The ratio of people leaving to coming in is not adding up. From everything I have seen the ranks are getting thin. At the same time I’m not seeing pay go up to really incentive people to stick with the profession. In addition, I know of certain employers just forcing more work on their already overloaded staff. Also, every effort of offshoring I have seen has gone horrible due to poor design and coordination (not on my projects). Maybe I’m in some weird bubble but this seems like red flag after red flag. Is anyone else noticing these same trends? Or is the rest for the US more stable?

 

[Ron]

I would imagine if there is a feeling of “plenty of work” then I would bid projects more aggressively.

Stop bidding on work! We're not contractors. Give them a proposal of services, take it or leave it. Yes, I'm well aware that clients might get more than one proposal for services and treat it as a "bid" situation. Educate the client that their selection should be qualifications based, not price based.

 

[phamENG]

DayRooster - yes, I've been pushing my prices up slowly, particularly on my smaller inspection and assessment work. But also on larger designs. Now I haven't been on my own all that long, and I did set my initial pricing a little low to get myself in front of a few clients I really wanted to work with, so it's a combination of easing it back up to where it should be anyway and responding to market pressures to raise prices.

 

[human909]

I did have an interesting conversation yesterday with another structural engineer in the later stages of his career. He was lamenting that in Australia (I'd expect this is similar in many at least English speaking places) structural engineers get no professional respect. Structural engineers are just a necessary evil in the construction process. If the construction goes well and is robust then the builder or possible the architect gets the credit and the positive comments from the client.

Whereas apparently in continental Europe engineers are held in much higher regard professionally and in society.

(I honestly don't have much context to assess the veracity of such statements. Though my father (formally a chemical engineer) had previously expressed exactly the same sentiments.)

 

[phamENG]

human909 - I'd say there's some truth to that. But I've also found that it depends a lot on the type of work you're doing. When it's a lot of boiler plate stuff like tract homes or a really basic shopping center that's when a lot of people see us as an obstruction to their profitability. But I've found a handful of clients that understand there's value in what we do and also understand that it takes collaboration and communication to realize it in the final structure. That's architects and contractors. As much as possible I'm shifting to working with them almost exclusively. If I get the feeling somebody just wants me to rubber stamp their problems, I might try to convince them otherwise or I just won't take any more work from them.

 

[DayRooster]

Ron - Agreed.

Pham - It sounds like you have a good gauge on your work and you are already noticing these trends. Like I said before, I like seeing fellow Structural Engineering doing good for themselves.

Human - That is the sad truth too often. I don’t get to tied up in praise for work. But I guess praise sometimes comes with more money if it is perceived that the architect is of great value compared to the structural engineer.

Random side note: Today alone I received another 4 recruiter calls. This is getting laughable. Didn’t entertain any of them because I’m happy where I’m current at. Regardless, none of them sounded remotely interesting (company, position or pay range). My favorite is “we are looking for a structural engineer to tackle challenging and fast turn around projects where you will be a structural engineer and project manager.” How about no, I’m not doing two jobs for a salary likely less than my current company. Has me thinking that real winners of this structural engineer hunt are the recruiters. When they steal an engineer from a company then they can go back to that company to get more work!

 

[spieng89]

Stop bidding on work! We're not contractors. Give them a proposal of services, take it or leave it. Yes, I'm well aware that clients might get more than one proposal for services and treat it as a "bid" situation. Educate the client that their selection should be qualifications based, not price based.

x2; that is one reason our salaries are slow to increase and do not equate to our level of accountability.

 

[IRstuff]

This is a capitalistic economy, so not everyone has the same costs and not everyone can, or wants to, come up with the same pricing, and a fixed pricing scheme does not account for market realities.

This strikes me as more a reflection of supply exceeding demand; if there were fewer engineers, the median rate would go up, regardless, simply because there would be less competition for jobs.

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[phamENG]

IRstuff - I think that's the point. Right now we're caught in the lag as the 'invisible hands' do their thing. Salaries don't go up until there's upward pressure from the market. That pressure doesn't come unless demand begins to grow in relation to supply. The more of a delta there is, the more pressure. We're starting to feel the pressure build now, and we all want it to build a little faster to start pushing the prices higher, sooner. Our clients need to get used to the idea that for the price you paid last year you're going to have trouble finding somebody willing to sacrifice other work to do it. Once they do, they'll start agreeing to pay more.

I've been considering 'surge pricing'. Requesting a schedule before providing a proposal and if they need it in the next 3 months it's $X, if they need it in the next 3 weeks it's 2x$X. That sort of thing.

 

[WARose]

I've been considering 'surge pricing'. Requesting a schedule before providing a proposal and if they need it in the next 3 months it's $X, if they need it in the next 3 weeks it's 2x$X. That sort of thing.

I've been flat out punting jobs based on schedule lately. I had one guy call me last month with a job that would take 8 weeks min. (on my end).....but to meet his schedule I'd have to send drawings to the fabricator the second he called.

 

[DayRooster]

Pham - That’s a very interesting concept. And if you have the workload then it doesn’t seem like it would make things worse. If you are open that you are busy hence the reason for the surge pricing then it seems logical. Contractor could take offense but, on the flip side, the idea that you are that busy likely means you are a sought after engineer. Heck, I don’t get angry at a Uber driver for surge pricing. I understand it’s supply and demand. If I don’t want to pay it then I’m walking home or waiting until the surge event stops…

WARose - A wise engineer I know would call that “punting on first down!”. Sometimes you just have to do it.

 

[WARose]

WARose - A wise engineer I know would call that “punting on first down!”. Sometimes you just have to do it.

If there isn't even a remote chance of meeting someone's schedule.....why take it? I've seen plenty of lawsuits from schedule failures.

It also alerts me to something else: if someone doesn't have a clue as to schedule.....it gets me wondering: what else do they not know and what other problems are going to appear working with these people?

Working with amateurs has gotten old.

 

[bones206]

I give myself a mental pep talk every day to not hang it up and find a new profession. It shouldn’t be that way because I really think I found my calling with structural engineering.I told my wife I can hang on for another 2 years max at this rate before I have to change course. I’m 36.

I could probably get myself a substantial raise because of the current market conditions, but at some point no amount of money is worth relentless suffocating stress.

 

[human909]

I give myself a mental pep talk every day to not hang it up and find a new profession. It shouldn’t be that way because I really think I found my calling with structural engineering.I told my wife I can hang on for another 2 years max at this rate before I have to change course. I’m 36.

I could probably get myself a substantial raise because of the current market conditions, but at some point no amount of money is worth relentless suffocating stress.

Hey man. That doesn't sound good or healthy. It sounds like you have already been strong and resolute for a while. Life is too short to spent half you waking hours doing something that destroys your mental health. While many of us have expressed numerous gripes in this thread, I would also suggest that most people here are happy (enough) in their work.

What is the suffocating stress that you are talking about? Is it the responsibility? Unrealistic expectations? Bad work environment? All of these? These can usually be changed without changing careers.


For what it is worth I changed careers around the age of 30, going back to university to study engineering. While it took several years to manoeuvre my career into a position I was happy with I'm now on a track that is suitable. Still not sure where it is leading in 4 years, but I'm happy doing what I'm doing and I have autonomy without onerous expectations.

My point is it sounds like you do need to change course sooner rather than later. But that course may just be structural engineering in a different capacity or a different firm.

 

[DayRooster]

Bones206,

I feel you. I was once at a high stress firm with big name clients. PMs were toxic and could care less about you. Clients were often unreasonable and the PMs would only add fuel to the fire. I would think about leaving the profession every day too. I ended up leaving the company and was not the only one to leave. One of the best decisions I made. That being said I did take a very small step backward to go to my current company. Not as much pay but when I went there I told them I wanted work-life balance. I wanted to work a solid 40 hours and enjoy my weekends. Now do I still work overtime? Yes, but it is not soul crushing and I feel it is manageable for me. I completely agree that no amount of money is worth the relentless suffocating stress. I sleep better now and my overall health has increased.

And for what it’s worth if it’s something deeper that ales you then I know of plenty of very smart structural engineers that have become project managers, civil engineers, water engineers, traffic engineers, project engineers, project estimators, lawyers (construction law), city engineers, field engineers, inspectors, CAD staff, doctors, financial agents, IT support, etc… I am sure I could think of more if I tried harder. All of them did it after years of school and some after many years of structural engineering. I am pretty sure almost all took a step back in pay but it seems like most were happy after years of finally being in their new industry industry. Never heard of any of them that have told me that they regret their decision.

Self reflection is important. Understanding the bigger picture of life and work. Do what is right for you first. Any good employer wants you to be healthy and happy so they get the most out of you (and yes a few do exist). The toxic ones will only think of you as a tool.

 

[bones206]

Sorry if my post came off as more dire than I intended. Probably because I had just received an email from my boss saying "we are going to need to load you up some more" first thing this morning and threads like this are too tempting to vent out frustration.

I should clarify that my preferred "change of course" in the near term is to quit and start my own sole-proprietorship. I'm not exactly a natural business-minded person, but I owe it to myself to give it a try before completely abandoning ship and becoming an instragram model

 

[DayRooster]

Glad to hear! I wish you success when you finally decide to step out and take matters into your own hands! IG model or engineer.

 

[3DDave]

bones - don't rule out TikTok, Twitch, and Patreon. I'm thinking a Twitch stream showing rebar percentage fill calculations might be a winner /s

 

[Tomfh]

I feel you. I was once at a high stress firm with big name clients. PMs were toxic and could care less about you

Was this a big firm?

I briefly worked at a big firm during university, but didn’t like the toxic corporate attitude.

 

[DayRooster]

Tomfh - It was an AE firm with roughly 1000 employees. There are bigger firms out there but this was one of the big players. Keep in mind even the small companies can be toxic too. It’s a tough road to navigate. I listen to people a lot and ask for feedback. That’s how I got to where I am today. Even so, my current company could decide to change their ways over night and I would be back at square one.

 

[molibden]

I was working in a small office with 5 engineers. It was very educating, I learned a lot. But it was also suffocating, constant pressure, working long hours and on weekends. I quit after 4 years and left proffesion for 2 years. I wanted to try again and started on my own. No way I was ever again working for someone else. Not structural engineering. Its hard enough as it is - I don't need a boss pressuring me. Now I'm 4 years on my own and loaded with work. But I like it.