Arrogant Engineers 37

[sbozy25]

Ok... So someone tell me why this is.....

I notice it with most customers and suppliers I work with, as well as my-self from time to time. I even notice it in these forums.

What is it that makes engineers so arrogant? I was asked this earlier today by someone that thougth i was being arrogant because I told them a convesion from mm to inches was easy. In these forums, if you read most of our posts... you will even notice there is a sence of this arrogance in a good portion of the responses....

Is it because we are for the most part well educated and that makes us this way? Or is it that we are all "nerds" and do not have the best interpersonal communication skills? Or are we just a large group of cocky know it alls?

I don't know, perhaps arrogance is not the word I am looking for, but you all know what I am getting at.

 

[rhodie]

From the offending perspective, I'd say that the disconnect is not with "arrogant engineers", but rather the "(flush with inferiority complexes and intimidated by engineers) non-engineers" that are the cause of the phenomenon.

 

[KENAT]

Part of it is that in our particular fields we are 'relatively' expert, at least compared to general public.

For instance on most math, especially anything more complex than basic arithmetic, we will have much higher competancy than lay folk.

For me, especially having worked both situations converting mm to inches is easy. For my wife or son, not so much.

Communication skills are also a factor.

Personality too is a factor.



KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[TomBarsh]

"aww, it's easy, man!" could be reassuring to someone a bit intimidated by converting inches to mm, or vice versa, or it could sound arrogant. I guess it all depends on the tone of voice, inflection, etc, and the mood of the listener.

I think it would be more arrogant to say "oh, well, this is an extremely difficult calculation...".

 

[IRstuff]

I think it's just that many of these things ARE SIMPLE.

Anyone who doesn't know or doesn't take the time to know is either dumb or lazy or both.

How's that for arrogance ;-)

It's also the whinny tone that these people have when they say, "It's too technical," or, "It's too hard."

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[Twoballcane]

I feel it is the total opposite. Most Engineers that I know do not go into bars speak loudly during a conversation with sombody and anounce to the world that s/he is an Engineer with their chest out. Or even drive expensive cars and have trophy wives. Most Engineers I know are realy down to earth. Now, if the Engineer is carrying on about a heavy duty subject, you may be confusing that with passion not arrogoncy.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[swertel]

IR, I think you're right on.

Converting metric to inches is easy. It is simple math. Maybe you can't remember the 25.4 conversion factor, big deal, but even grade school kids can multiply. It's easy and I'm not afraid to call people on it.

I get referred to as arrogant because of personality and delivery. Mainly, being the introverted personality type, I don't talk unless spoken to and I don't make random assumptions about nonsense just to hear myself speak. But, if a conversation is going on and I happen to know the subject matter - which by default means I've studied it enough to be better educated than the guy who just heard about it on the news -- the same guy who started the conversation - then all of a sudden the quiet guy in the corner is speaking out because who knows everything. Well, that is what gets portrayed.

It gets portrayed that way because, we as engineers, have an inherent need to educate others and my presentation skills are not too shy when it comes to correcting someone of gross errors in their facts.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

 

[Twoballcane]

...."but even grade school kids can multiply. "

Are you smarter than a 5th grader? Should first be asked...and then wait for that look...LOL

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[sbozy25]

Now, our head quality guy has a right to call me an arrogant jerk. But I act that way with him, because that is the only way i can get through to him. He has been this companies head quality engineer for 15 years and he is a moron...

quick story...

He came to me about a month ago ranting and raving about how stupid engineering is. He threw a print infront of me and told me he couldn't measure parts because the print was in metric and he only had english instruments. So I told him to convert from mm to inches and he would be fine. He got all hot and started yelling about how he doesn't know how to do that and it is my responsibility to do the complicated engineering. I quite literaly had to pull my jaw off the floor. I was extremely busy and did not have time to mess with it... So, I told him that if he sat in the corner of my office in "time out" I would change the print to english for him... but only then would I do it. Let me tell you... bad idea, he flew off the handle... But I stuck to my guns, and eventually he turned and sat in the corner while I converted the 5 dimensions for him... oh and I made it take about 5 mins... Now he hates me... Oh well...

 

[ctopher]

sbozy25,
I had a very similar situation once. So, I changed the dwg to show in/[mm]. He still got mad because he now had to dimension twice!
Sometimes you want to just want to .... never mind.

Chris
SolidWorks 07 4.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 04-21-07)

 

[COEngineeer]

When I watch "I am smarter than a 5th grader" my wife thinks im arrogant. I knew the answers of the science question and I said... "I cant believe he doesnt know the answer!!!" And my wife said (she is an attorney btw).. I dont know it either!!!

Never, but never question engineer's judgement

 

[ctopher]

Someone with less intelligence than you will think you're being arrogant, someone with more intelligence than you will think you're showing off, someone with equal intelligence will either argue with you or not listen to you at all.
This is only my observation.

Chris
SolidWorks 07 4.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 04-21-07)

 

[casseopeia]

I am a female architect who has spent the bulk of her career working for engineering firms. I can honestly say I have never found a single engineer I would call arrogant. Socially inept and lacking interpersonal skills yes, but not arrogant. I’d say many bordered on shy.

My guess is that you miscalculated the reaction the customer/listener would have when you told them something they found difficult was easy. Although accurate, it was demeaning to them. Perhaps the better way to handle it would be to genuinely and sympathetically ask what is causing their difficulty, offering to show them how to do the conversion, or send them a link to any number of sites that will do it for them, and then offering to help if they have future trouble with the conversion, without making the JUDGEMENT that the task is easy.

I’d love to go on and on with this topic. I have been on a personal quest for a long time to improve my own interpersonal communication and my ‘believability’ when I testify in court for work. Two things I would recommend that have worked for me. Start some reading about personality types. Meyers-Briggs is good, but I like the Enneagram (9-types). Also, the book Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman, PhD is a good resource. I am currently listening to the audio version. Check out Non-Violent communication by Dr. Marshall Rosenberg. I think you can listen to excerpts on his website.

Or you may find you own path, other books and different sources. It is not a quick study, especially for those of us not born with an innate ability, like me. It takes work, but most importantly, you have to be motivated by a desire to improve yourself, not a need to change others.




"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[doberdorks]

It happens in all fields.. say, oh dog training

"Clicker training is easy"... sure for those with good timing and the ability to read dogs... guess what, these are the people that go into teaching others how to train dogs...

I haven't found most engineers to be arrogant. The people I have found to be arrogant are the self taught ones... I took martial arts two places, one fairly traditional, the other headed up by a self taught guy... they were equal in being VERY good martial artists (if that's the term); however those who had learned from others always knew there were people out there better than them, the self taught one (who had tremendous natural talent) was "almost as good as he thought he was" (and that was saying a lot as he was excellent... however during his formative years in the art, he had never run into anyone that truely knew more than he did or was better than him...

My opinions only
SLH

 

[macmet]

I agree with sbozy25, engineers are arrogant. I think it is part of the history of engineers. I don't know about everyone else but I spent most of my first year of univ singing songs about how much smarter we and better we were than the other faculties. It was 8 months of brainwashing. ERTW?

It wasn't until I made friends in other programs that I realized how ridiculous it all was.

Having said that though, it still does blow my mind sometimes how difficult people make math out to be. Even situations that require some sort of logical action can totally fluster them.

But, everyone is different, I see a simple math mistake and it bothers me, they read something where I put a comma in the wrong spot and they feel the same way.

 

[UcfSE]

It's not arrogant if you are just that [dern] good.

 

[Amphoteric]

In addition to the normal kinds of arrogance, which is a bit rare for engineering type, sometimes people will act blustery to defend their intellectual "turf." Some people are just really touchy if you try to ask questions about the plant they're running or the calculation they did, even if you're just asking for information's sake. They just feel this need to prove that they're on the ball, display their competency, etc.

People can also put up a "you don't understand it as well as me" shield for political purposes, such as avoiding or pushing for a change in the workplace. But that can happen in all parts of the business.

 

[MikeHalloran]

I'm actually very quiet and shy.

Sometimes I overcompensate.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[monkeydog]

Twoballcane said
"Most Engineers that I know do not go into bars speak loudly during a conversation with sombody and anounce to the world that s/he is an Engineer with their chest out. Or even drive expensive cars and have trophy wives. Most Engineers I know are realy down to earth."

I quoted that to my wife, and now I have to sleep down stairs.

Thanks alot buddy.

 

[KENAT]

sbozy, frankly if a guy in an Engineering related position can't do that math he should be canned. If he can't convert mm to inches how does he cope with interpreting GD&T, especially any MMC/Bonus tol, statistical tolerancing etc. I wouldn't call what you did arrogance so much as frustration, I posted on that very topic a while back.

That said a lot of people struggle with real world math problems, or as my wife calls them 'word problems'.

I bet if you gave him the problem of 76.2/25.4 he'd eventually have got the right answer, even if it took a calculator. You tell him to convert the 76.2 mm pipe into inch dimensions using the conversion factor of 25.4 mm to 1 inch he's lost.

Engineers spend a big part of their careers turning 'word problems' into mathematical equations.

An example or arrogance from this site, a few weeks ago someone posted a question of how to calculate the weight per foot for a plastic pipe, saying he had a CAD model that calculated the mass but he didn't understand how to get this information.

Most of the responses immediately demeaned the OP saying anyone with a high school education should be able to work it out etc. Turned out the guy was a tech illustrator not an Engineer.

I know this is Eng-tips not tech illustrator tips but I figured it was a related profession and not too unreasonable for him to use this site, there are a bunch of designers, drafters, and architects on here too (plus those of us in exempt industry that don’t have PE and aren’t striving toward it which some posters think shouldn’t be called Engineers) so I decided to try and help.

I can see how peoples response to this guy could be seen as arrogance, even I questioned if he was an intern or something (which is why he explained he was a tech illustrator) so was perhaps guilty.

I will say I’ve noticed the arrogance a bit more in the US than I did in the UK, as I mentioned before the sense of superiority of Engineers to Drafters/Designers is more evident here than back in Blighty but it may also have been the industry I was in and/or the employer.

That said I’m sure some of those reading this will consider me arrogant, I’m willing to admit that though I try not to be sometimes I probably am. Likewise I sometimes think I have a chip on my shoulder so I’m sure others think it even more often!


KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...