Arrogant Engineers 37

[sbozy25]

Ok... So someone tell me why this is.....

I notice it with most customers and suppliers I work with, as well as my-self from time to time. I even notice it in these forums.

What is it that makes engineers so arrogant? I was asked this earlier today by someone that thougth i was being arrogant because I told them a convesion from mm to inches was easy. In these forums, if you read most of our posts... you will even notice there is a sence of this arrogance in a good portion of the responses....

Is it because we are for the most part well educated and that makes us this way? Or is it that we are all "nerds" and do not have the best interpersonal communication skills? Or are we just a large group of cocky know it alls?

I don't know, perhaps arrogance is not the word I am looking for, but you all know what I am getting at.

 

[ctopher]

I think I will have one of these:

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/147/92/

Chris
SolidWorks 07 4.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 04-21-07)

 

[KENAT]

American Strong Ale

Isn't that an Oxymoron?

That was an example of me being an arrogant Brit, thinking our beer is better than your gnats... sorry I meant your beer.

Someone red-flag me please.

On topic, a couple of posts that may be construed by some as having some arrogance to them.

thread731-193707
thread507-192959



KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[MortenA]

Maybe it just other people that become selfconsious and perhaps a little ashamed that they cant do simple unit conversions?

Best regrads

Morten

 

[dogleg43]

If an engineer is wrong they might say "You are right."

It is rare to hear an engineer say "I'm wrong or I made a mistake."

 

[Twoballcane]

Monkeydog (frat name?)

Sorry about that! If your wife is a trophy wife (as in you married her for her looks and not for her brains)Im not understanding why she was mad.

I hope your Porshe wont get mad and make you drive the Toyota!

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[JsTyLz]

I have been called forthright, blunt, to the point. I take these as compliments. Arrogant, a few times, but not very often. In engineering we are taught to be objective, not subjective and I truly believe a lot of the times it kills our interpersonal (or is it intra) skills. Though I have learned how to cater my response to my audience working in the industry, it is necessary. But... sometimes no matter what you do people feel threatened by an engineer's ability to learn and somewhat understand almost any technical subject matter.

In the case of this Quality guy he obviously doesn't do too much technical stuff in terms of math, but he might know a ton about the shop and how to tweak a process to tighten up the standard deviation. From the sounds of it he did not get an engineering degree, but worked his way up from the shop floor. I find that too many quality engineers don't have a degree, but that is another story.

In any case, giving the quality engineer the conversion factor should have ended it. The "time out" probably has more to do with the arrogance than anything else.

And some american porters make boddingtons, or whatever a comparable Brit beer is, taste like hot gartbage. I wonder if they export the good beer from UK to US?? Now that I think of it, what are the best beers in UK, whhooopps off the topic. No coffee = bad engineer

 

[FiltrationEngineer]

I saw somewhere when there is a difference of 20 points in IQ the people have a hard time communicating with each other. I think this is the case with engineers, as most of us have high IQ's. That is really what makes an engineer a good engineer because we have the ability to figure things out, not just book learning.

Anyway, I believe that "lay people" generally have lower IQ's than engineers who talk over their heads and act like math is easy. They mistakenly decide this is arrogance.

This is what I do to prevent myself from being labeled arrogant:
1. I never talk about engineering stuff with my non engineer friends. They don't understand it and they label me arrogant or a nerd, or they just aren't interested.

2. I always assume non-engineers have the technical mind of a child and that I should carefully explain things to them in the same way that I explain stuff to my six-year-old. This works pretty well.

3. I also understand that just because I have more theoretical and practical knowledge than non-engineers, that many others have more social knowledge than me.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

"It's easy."
"It's good enough."
"You don't need to do that."

I don't know if that's arrogance. Ignorance, maybe, Incompetence, maybe.

In the engineering profession, the arrogant engineers I know are mostly coastal engineers. They surf, I don't, so I'm not sh*t. They seem to really look down on any profession that works with their hands - including computer modeling of anything other than grains of sand.


Then again, THIS is what arrogance is all about:

http://www.areavoices.com/wrestling/images/thumbnail/rick_martel1.jpg.

 

[TenPenny]

For the most part, it's not arrogance, and the problem is not IQ or intelligence. It's knowledge. My sister in law, with a PHD in genetics and arcane weird stuff comes across as arrogant to me, but that's because she assumes that I (who never took biology even in high school) know all of this stuff that she works with every day.

When we as engineers assume that our audience knows something as a basic fact, and make it obvious that we assume they SHOULD know it, that's when we appear arrogant.

Off the top of my head, I can't remember how many duplex outlets are allowed on a single 15 amp household circuit, but I don't consider an electrician arrogant for knowing that.

It's not about treating your audience as idiots, it's about treating them with respect. Don't assume they know everything you do, or they'll turn the tables on you, and guaranteed there are things that YOU don't understand about what they do.

Why is common courtesy and respect so hard to find?

As for the quality guy who was confused by metric drawings, I would write up a non-conformance on him, for not having the proper tools to do his job - ie, metric tools for measuring. Any quality guy should know that a metric item should be checked with metric tools. There is no excuse for doing conversions.

 

[PSE]

People can confuse confidence (technical or otherwise) with arrogance. I suppose it likely depends, as some of the previous posters indicate, on how the information is delivered to or more importantly, perceived by the audience. This is especially true to providing technical information to those without a strong background. If their eyes start to glaze over, it is best to take a different tact.

regards,

 

[DaveVikingPE]

"Why is common courtesy and respect so hard to find?"

Because it isn't worth the effort. Consider:

Some "assistant" in the "retail service industry" remarked to me for whatever reason (I probably needed an answer to a question) "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar."

To which I replied, "no, if you really want to catch flies, you need a handful of dog sh*t. Now please give me what I require as I am PAYING YOU for it!" Or that's how I'd like to recall it in my memory.

I find myself often on the ass-end of a double standard. Work I do is expected to be better than perfect, but when I'm checking someone else's work, I'm expected to give 'em a break. I also can explain things pretty well - yet I constantly run into other engineers, people with experience, who just don't "get it" and because of that, I'm an idiot.

I hate "dumbing-down" anything. If I don't know much about a subject, I have no problem admitting it. Is there a problem with that? (yes, if it's structural engineering-related, another story). Whenever I talk to a lay-person about engineering, I use the proper terms (e.g., modulus of elasticity) and try to define them as I go along. But if someone's talking to me about plasma physics, what's up with me not knowing the latest? 'coz everyone else knows them.

Thus, I choose to respond with violence. Result: no one talks to me much any more. Ahh, bliss.

 

[whyun]

Engineers sometimes look arrogant because they often make the mistake of assuming that other people know what they know.

 

[RAH1234]

There is a very fine line between confidence and arrogance.

 

[waskillywabbit]

It has been my experience that people I label "arrogant", whether "engineers" or not, are people that I do not truly know, but only have as an acquaintance. I often discover that it is my ill conceived perception of them that is flawed, yet there are always those that once I do get to know them on more than an acquaintance level that just turn out to be a-holes. Unfortunately for most of us perception is reality.


Brian

 

[epoisses]

Engineers arrogant... ever met a surgeon !!?? :-D

 

[KENAT]

So true epoisses, in fact Doctors generally, very much of a God complex.

Engineering isn't the only proffession to exhibit this tendancy, but it is the only one we're members of.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[lookintomyeyes]

I've seen a few "arrogant" engineers before. Still not sure what makes them so. Perhaps the unwillingness to admit when they've made a mistake?
I can recall a drawing where the engineer wrote a drill angle that was impossible....he didnt make the call to the supplier first...turns out we had to hand correct all the drawings before they went out for tender...and we didnt get to cross off the wrong angle, we had to make it a RANGE of angles that would include his impossible one, so that he was still right.
But Ive experienced arrogance at other times as well. Ever walk into a room full of engineers with your "iron ring" left at home?

Ever seen an engineer belittling a technologist? or plumber? or other "lower" tradesperson? (I've seen it, many times). I dont know what causes it, but for some reason some of us peeps with heads full of math think we know better than the people installing our design. Then they come back and tell us that "Yup, that valve will fit where you want it, but there wont be enough clearance to turn it off next time you want to do maintenance..." and we get all upset and tell them to "just make it work".

I think the UNarrogant engineers are the ones who value the knowledge of everyone else around them. The rest still have alot to learn.

 

[sms]

ar·ro·gance Pronunciation[ar-uh-guhns]

–noun: offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.

If someone that can't do a simple unit conversion is offended that it is easy for me, I am not so sure I am concerned about that. But since we really are superior, why wouldn't we display it? If you got it, flaut it so to speak... ;-)




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[whyun]

I'm note sure if this qualifies as arrogance but I saw a vanity plate that says LITIG8R. I was driving right behind that guy and even without looking at his face I didn't like that guy.

 

[TenPenny]

If you are secure in your knowledge and talent, you don't need to be arrogant.

Arrogance is used by insecure people, so they can remind themselves of how superior they believe themselves to be.

There is nothing wrong with people not knowing something; there are 'simple' conversions that many people don't know how to do. Some world leaders can't pronounce 'nuclear'; some movie starlets/professional sluts can't even drive drunk. Everyone has important basic skills they lack.