ASME Section VIII, Div 1 compliance without U Stamp

[derekk13]

I am looking for some clarification with regard to the ASME BOILER AND PRESSURE VESSEL CODE, SECTION VIII, DIVISION I. Does this section of the code require (or specify) that the vessel must be fabricated in a "U" stamp facility in order for the "VESSEL DESIGN AND FABRICATION TO COMPLY FULLY WITH THE ASME BOILER AND PRESSURE VESSEL CODE, SECTION VIII, DIVISION I"?

To give you some context, we are currently manufacturing a number of portable air compressor systems that are to be sold to a client who's technical specifications indicate that "VESSEL DESIGN AND FABRICATION MUST COMPLY FULLY WITH THE ASME BOILER AND PRESSURE VESSEL CODE, SECTION VIII, DIVISION I". It also indicates that "ALL PRESSURE VESSELS MUST BE REGISTERED WITH THE NATIONAL BOARD OF BOILER AND PRESSURE VESSEL INSPECTORS (NB), OR ALBERTA BOILER SAFETY ASSOCIATION (ABSA) OR CANADIAN REGISTRATION NUMBER (CRN) IN LIEU OF NATIONAL BOARD NUMBER."

We have had a number of pressure vessels fabricated in a Canadian facility that is not an ASME "U" stamp certificate of authorization holder. They are however a TSSA certificate of authorization holder approved for pressure vessel fabrication and registration under the Canadian Registration Number (CRN) program. As a result TSSA (but not ASME) certify that the vessels are designed & fabricated to the code. I understand that the fabrication facility must hold a valid ASME certificate of authorization in order to stamp the vessel with the "U" stamp, and that the the "U" stamp certifies that the "VESSEL DESIGN AND FABRICATION COMPLY FULLY WITH THE ASME BOILER AND PRESSURE VESSEL CODE, SECTION VIII, DIVISION I".

While the vessels clearly cannot be stamped with a "U"stamp, is it fair to say that the vessel does not have to be manufactured by a "U" stamp certificate of authorization holder in order to have the "VESSEL DESIGN AND FABRICATION COMPLY FULLY WITH THE ASME BOILER AND PRESSURE VESSEL CODE, SECTION VIII, DIVISION I"?

I would appreciate any insight you can offer into the code requirements in this regard.

 

[CodeRef]

I believe the customers Tech Specs were written this way to cover multiple installations within various jurisdictions/provinces.

Below is a link to the NB Synopsis which is a compilation of rules and regulations for the various Jurisdictions (US) and Provinces(Canada) set forth in an easy to read format.

https://www.nationalboard.org/NationalBoard/Publications/Synopsis/nb370.pdf

[Registration with the NB is required]

The majority of the States in the US require NB registration for pressure vessels. For the US the vessel must be an ASME stamped vessel in order to satisfy the stated Tech Spec requirement of National Board Registration. You cannot register non ASME stamped vessels with the National Board.
For installation in Canada, additional requirements may apply depending on each Province.

You would be better directing your question to the customer with the Tech Spec requirement.

 

[JohnBreen]

derekk13

Legal Consideration:

The ASME B&PV Code is a voluntary consensus Standard that gains the force of law when it is mandated by the building Code of the jurisdiction in which the equipment is to be installed and operated. You need the advice and respect of the Chief Inspector of the jurisdiction.

Contractual Consideration:

Simply stated, your vessels do not comply with the letter of your client's technical specification. It would be a waste of everybody's time to argue that point any further.

Your best approach would be to go to the Jurisdiction (Chief Inspector) in which the equipment is to be installed and operated and ask for an official determination as to the acceptability of the equipment to the jurisdiction (in writing, it may cost you a fee). Next, go to the client with your acceptance document and ask for a limited exception to the technical specification (have your hat in your hand and grovel a little).

CodeJackal has provided the pathway in his previous posting. Your company is in an awkward position here but you might be able to get the client to loosen up a little (when is the last time you took them to lunch?).

Regards, John.

 

[derekk13]

Thanks for the feedback,

Our CRN registration does not require a U stamp. The fabricator is a holder of a TSSA (not ASME) certificate of authorization. As such, the welding procedures are part of the registered design, but a code stamp is not required to meet TSSA CRN registration requirements.

Where I'm struggling, is that the statement that "CANADIAN REGISTRATION NUMBER (CRN) IN LIEU OF NATIONAL BOARD NUMBER" is acceptable. The spec also states specifically that "PRESSURE VESSEL REPAIRS AND/OR ALTERATIONS......VENDOR SHALL BE A HOLDER OF A NATIONAL BOARD "R" STAMP (OR "R2", ETC. AS APPLICABLE)...", however there is no similar reference to a "U" stamp requirement in the spec.

 

[derekk13]

JohnBreen

Not to waste anybody's time, but what specifically do you see in the spec that leads you to say....

"Simply stated, your vessels do not comply with the letter of your client's technical specification. It would be a waste of everybody's time to argue that point any further."

I would suggest (perhaps incorrectly, but I'll try anyways)that we are in full compliance with the letter of the technical spec, because we have the required CRN registration, and the "VESSEL DESIGN AND FABRICATION MUST COMPLY FULLY WITH THE ASME BOILER AND PRESSURE VESSEL CODE, SECTION VIII, DIVISION I". The TSSA certfication and issuance of CRN number indicates that TSSA (who are also the Authorized Inspector for ASME coded vessels in Ontario) are certifying that the vessel is in full compliance with the ASME code. The only thing missing is the ASME certificate of authorization to issue the U stamp. I can't find anything in the code that states the fabricator must hold a code stamp to be able to comply with the code, only to affix the code stamp (which is ASME's certification that the code has been met).

Am I way off base?

 

[JohnBreen]

What does the Chief Inspector of the Jurisdiction say??? If the Chief is not on board, your client can not legally install the equipment.

Actually, nothing else matters IF THE CLIENT WILL ACCEPT THE DEVIATION (the client pays the bill).

 

[derekk13]

Because it is mobile equipment, there is no single chief inspector we can go to. At this point we are all in agreement that the client needs the U stamp to do what they want to do. They need to be able to take this mobile equipment into any US jurisdiction. We are working on a remedy.

The question we need to resolve with the client is: is our interpretation of their spec reasonable and their spec is simply not clear enough, or is our interpretation incorrect and we should have reasonably been able to understand that a U stamp was a MUST HAVE?

 

[CodeRef]

If the vessel is on a public road way in the US, the Jurisdiction (State or City) administering the Boiler and Pressure Vessel Rules/Regulations will not regulate these vessels, but rather will defer to the Federal DOT or the State DOT regulations.

If the vessel is on a commercial property and it's portable and is being used for service at that facility, then the State or Jurisdictional rules governing Boilers and Pressure Vessels will govern, regardless if it is mobile or not.

Almost every Jurisdiction has rules for obtaining permits or inspection certificates for portable boilers used for temporary means. I do not know of ANY that address portable pressure vessels. If anybody knows of any Jurisdictions that regulate portable pressure vessels, let me know. This question comes up quite frequently and I have never found a clear answer to this question.
I do know that the DOT regulates milk tankers, propane tankers, and portable gas bottles with references to the ASME Codes (Section VIII-1 and XII as applicable) for design. Registration for these vessels are typically through the DOT.

As you have stated, you will certainly have to consult with each and every Jurisdiction (DOT and the administrator for Boiler and Pressure Vessel Rules/Regulations) where the vessel(s) may be operated for input. Good Luck!

Let me know how this turns out for you because I am sure this question will come up again and again.