Asphalt overlays adjacent to curb and gutter

[CCC08]

I recently administered an asphalt overlay contract in a residential community with a combination of roads with and without curb and gutter. On those roads with curb and gutter a standing joint was specified after being discussed with the HOA as one of the options available. Other options included milling adjacent to c&g, milling entire width, etc. The road was generally in fair condition requiring no patching. As a result the standing joint was selected to minimize cost and impacts from construction.
Following the overlay there are concerns being voiced by homeowners regarding the driveway connections and the 'bump' now present. The HOA wants the driveways milled flush, but I do not recommend this for various reasons.
Has anyone else encountered this? Is standing joint considered a normal/acceptable treatment in your area?

Thanks

 

[racookpe1978]

How big is the current joint? The "bump" they are concerned with?

 

[bimr]

Do you have a picture?

 

[CCC08]

The standing joint is 1.5" max. I don't have photos yet.

 

[hokie66]

Milling the edges is standard where I am. I think a bump is unsatisfactory.

 

[darthsoilsguy2]

1.5" is the thinnest that asphalt should be for an overlay. milling it now will just feather it down and it will break off ugly soon. if milling were to happen it should have been done first so the 1.5" brought it up to grade. ship has sailed. the two pay items that typcally get Value-Engineered on resurfacing jobs: #1 pay-item to raise structures (grates,valve boxes, etc) #2 milling at terminations ahead of overlay. Both of those VE approaches are also 'industry standard'. There will always be people that with buyers remorse on these two VE options. I would be in that group myself if i were a landowner in the community, but you would have heard my views before the work when it was appropriate and if the HOA didn't go my way, i would shut up now. your best approach may be to find the most vocal opponents of what i like to refer as "The Full Scale Model"... and see if there is a pre-milling/overlay job to transition their drive into the new finished surface, or you could mill the entire overlay at those drive, then continue to mill down into the original road and redo the overlay there. Make sure you are not holding the bad perception baggage. If what you say is correct, this is the Owner's fault. you have to be a professional with clients, but that doesn't mean you take beatings for them. Milling the overlay will fail and cannot be an option. If you participate in the milling of the 1.5" overlay, it will fail and will be your fault.

 

[civilman72]

Standing joints are certainly not desirable and are rarely used where I'm at. However, it sounds like the HOA made this decision to save money, and now they should have to deal with the consequences. There is probably a small bump in the flowline already so they should have been traversing this area at a slow speed regardless of this additional bump.

 

[beej67]

I quite often see drainage problems arise in subdivisions and residential streets where repaving has reduced or eliminated stormwater conveyance in the gutter pan. Sometimes it even causes runoff which used to stay within the gutter to jump a curb cut and go down someone's driveway, creating a drainage problem that didn't exist prior.

Something to think about.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[hokie66]

Milling the overlay is not an option, as darth pointed out. The milling should have been done first...and every time an overlay is used. If the pavement is not even with the gutter, the step represents an unsafe condition, and eventually the owner of the road will be sued for personal injury.

 

[Twinkie]

Can you heat the "bump" up and flatten it a little??

Not to beat dead horse, but always at least do the edge mill.

 

[DDBPE]

Heating the "bump" and trying to flatten out is not good practice and would do nothing but cause future problems. Once the asphalt reaches a certain point with compaction, going beyond and trying to flatten out would be detrimental to the pavement. Depending on where you are in the country and the types of aggregates used, over-compacting can start breaking the aggregate and cause stress cracks in the mat. Heating (assuming with a weed burner) can also prematurely age and oxidize the asphalt as this direct heat is too hot. Some may try to heat and rake out the aggregate and compact to provide a smooth transition and this just causes future raveling problems besides looking terrible. Infrared heaters work to reheat but are primarily used to stamp asphalt and correct surface irregularities, not flatten out for a transition.
Anytime an overlay is specified adjacent to curb and gutter or even guardrail, edge milling or full width should be specified. Any prudent paving contractor would have pointed this out at a pre-bid or after the award.

 

[Twinkie]

Come on now .... every intersection in America gets heating a little bit after construction to facilitate drainage and fix the puddles.

We're trying to lessen the guy's problems here, the road is already jacked up.

 

[eea]

I've never seen anyone trying to correct new HMA with spot heat treatment. Local options here would be (1) live with it or (2) spot mill and overlay.

Agree with others on the ship sailing on the curbing. An after the fact item that might help to make the situation a little less (or more) tense with the HOA, is to review the resulting pavement cross-slope had you milled and current ADA requirements. I've used the edge milling trick, usually one pass with 7' drum mill, but it does increase the cross-slope. Given some of the over break restrictions at cross-walks and ADA ramps (does the HOA even have ramps, are the ramps to code?), would this have even made things worse? That being said, an inch and half lip in the curb pan at an ADA ramp is just as much of a violation.

Now that the ADA cat is out of the bag, you should probably review the current code's position on overlays (ADA &/or PROWAG). Overlays (unless they're limited emergency repairs) require that the ADA issues be brought up to current requirements. Public works projects will not get funding in my area until those are addressed and if neglected are potentially prosecutable by the DOJ.

I assume you're a consultant at a professional firm? You better carefully review all of the upfront dialogue you had with the HOA and have documented that they made the decision. Even then, you may have allowed them violate ADA. As the professional in the room, you are supposed to know best.

 

[CCC08]

I appreciate all the time and comments. Sorry I haven't been able to reply before today.

I am fully aware of how to mill and produce a smooth transition in the original overlay. This was an option chosen by the HOA, for funding reasons, and is documented. All intersections are flush with milled headers at the beginnings. Agree with other comments on here that the time for a transition at driveways has passed.
The HOA has since agreed all future overlays should include milling so this is a one time issue.
The overlay was placed over a year ago and heating is/was not a recommended option nor was milling the outside edge as milling would only expose the mix and lead to premature failure.
Paving into the gutter was not recommended as often this area does not adhere well and develops a crack along the underlying joint.
This is a private HOA with no sidewalk or ramps and the grade (vertical alignment) of the roadway itself exceeds the 8.33% ADA requirements. Thankfully, ADA is not an issue in this location.

At this point I am simply trying to assist the HOA with as someone stated above "buyers remorse" One option I am looking at is Bridjit curb ramps. Anyone have any experience with these?