Does anyone use Associative Basic Curves function in their design?
I’m Curious
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I’m Curious
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First Try
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Associative Basic Curves
- Thread starter csbk
- Start date
JohnRBaker
Mechanical
I have some comments after looking at your survey.
Item 2: Note that Associative Basic Curves is not and will never be intended as a replacement for Sketching, and for several reasons. To start with, Associative Basic Curves are just that Associative, they are NOT constrained except in a limited sense. Granted, in cases where people were using a Sketch so they could create one or two simple curves linked to some existing modeling features, Associative Basic Curves would be the preferred approach to take today, but we hope that NO ONE starts to create profiles of 10 or 15 Associative Basic Curves strung together and then used in an extrude or revolve so as to avoid creating a "Sketch". That would be "software abuse".
Item 3: There is no need to put a place holder in there labled NX 5+ as it will be at least until next March (if we keep to our planned schedule) before NX 5 will be a released product. After all, it won't even go into Beta until this September/October.
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product "Evangelist"
NX Product Line
UGS Corp
Cypress, CA
Phone: 714-952-6032
FAX: 714-952-5758
John.R.Baker@ugs.com
Item 2: Note that Associative Basic Curves is not and will never be intended as a replacement for Sketching, and for several reasons. To start with, Associative Basic Curves are just that Associative, they are NOT constrained except in a limited sense. Granted, in cases where people were using a Sketch so they could create one or two simple curves linked to some existing modeling features, Associative Basic Curves would be the preferred approach to take today, but we hope that NO ONE starts to create profiles of 10 or 15 Associative Basic Curves strung together and then used in an extrude or revolve so as to avoid creating a "Sketch". That would be "software abuse".
Item 3: There is no need to put a place holder in there labled NX 5+ as it will be at least until next March (if we keep to our planned schedule) before NX 5 will be a released product. After all, it won't even go into Beta until this September/October.
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product "Evangelist"
NX Product Line
UGS Corp
Cypress, CA
Phone: 714-952-6032
FAX: 714-952-5758
John.R.Baker@ugs.com
I can agree with John. We use the curves as John indicates in cases where previously you needed to create a sketch for only 1 line.
We find it also very helpfull in reverse engineering situations. As they are parametrised, they can be used to shape and adjust a freeform surface based on 3D measurement points.
To us it's one of the major improvements from NX3 on.
We find it also very helpfull in reverse engineering situations. As they are parametrised, they can be used to shape and adjust a freeform surface based on 3D measurement points.
To us it's one of the major improvements from NX3 on.
- Thread starter
- #4
Thank you for these initial comments.
Since we have gone to NX3 we have not been developing new product, so I have not been able to make use of it. That’s why the curiosity of how people are using it. I am not against it, I am one of the ones who have requested Associative Basic Curves for the same reason you have described… When you want to do something simple or when you want to constrain curves on multiple planes like for some routing project. The reason that I put sketch in the survey was to see if users that did not use Associative Basic Curves also would not use Sketch either.
The reason I have nx5 as a choice is because this survey is not for any official reason, and I could neglect to look at it or remove it for a year or some ugs guy could be using a beta version or something.
Since we have gone to NX3 we have not been developing new product, so I have not been able to make use of it. That’s why the curiosity of how people are using it. I am not against it, I am one of the ones who have requested Associative Basic Curves for the same reason you have described… When you want to do something simple or when you want to constrain curves on multiple planes like for some routing project. The reason that I put sketch in the survey was to see if users that did not use Associative Basic Curves also would not use Sketch either.
The reason I have nx5 as a choice is because this survey is not for any official reason, and I could neglect to look at it or remove it for a year or some ugs guy could be using a beta version or something.
- Thread starter
- #5
[tt]Total: 15
Visible: 15
Summary and Detail
Associative Basic Curves
1. Do you use Associative Basic Curves function?
Response Percent Response Total
I frequently use it
20% 3
I have used it a few times
40% 6
No, don’t need it
26.7% 4
I’m not sure what it is
13.3% 2
Total Respondents 15
(skipped this question) 0
2. Do you like the Associative Basic Curves function?
Response Percent Response Total
Yes, It’s perfect for my situation
14.3% 2
Yes, but needs improvements
21.4% 3
I would like to try it
14.3% 2
No, I do use Sketcher
35.7% 5
No
14.3% 2
Total Respondents 14
(skipped this question) 1
3. What version of UG/NX do you use?
Response Percent Response Total
NX2 (UG) or older
7.1% 1
NX3
64.3% 9
NX4
28.6% 4
NX5+
0% 0
Total Respondents 14
(skipped this question) 1
4. Please comment
Total Respondents
1
(skipped this question) 14
1.
i used to use catia and being able to work on a 2D plane was a big advantage compared to NX
[/tt]
Visible: 15
Summary and Detail
Associative Basic Curves
1. Do you use Associative Basic Curves function?
Response Percent Response Total
I frequently use it
20% 3
I have used it a few times
40% 6
No, don’t need it
26.7% 4
I’m not sure what it is
13.3% 2
Total Respondents 15
(skipped this question) 0
2. Do you like the Associative Basic Curves function?
Response Percent Response Total
Yes, It’s perfect for my situation
14.3% 2
Yes, but needs improvements
21.4% 3
I would like to try it
14.3% 2
No, I do use Sketcher
35.7% 5
No
14.3% 2
Total Respondents 14
(skipped this question) 1
3. What version of UG/NX do you use?
Response Percent Response Total
NX2 (UG) or older
7.1% 1
NX3
64.3% 9
NX4
28.6% 4
NX5+
0% 0
Total Respondents 14
(skipped this question) 1
4. Please comment
Total Respondents
1
(skipped this question) 14
1.
i used to use catia and being able to work on a 2D plane was a big advantage compared to NX
[/tt]
Let's see....NX can sketch in 2D and you can create curves on the XY plane (rotated or left as-is).....I really don't understand that final comment the former Catia user made. NX is quite capable of working on a 2D plane.
Tim Flater
Senior Designer
Enkei America, Inc.
Tim Flater
Senior Designer
Enkei America, Inc.
This also goes to show you how any survey can be misleading. I've never been a fan of statistics because it's so easy to throw them off one way or another. I believe Mark Twain once said, "there are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Rather, I should say it's difficult to get a genuine, non-biased result.
Tim Flater
Senior Designer
Enkei America, Inc.
Rather, I should say it's difficult to get a genuine, non-biased result.
Tim Flater
Senior Designer
Enkei America, Inc.
JohnRBaker
Mechanical
Note that I'm familiar to some extent with the issue of the 2D construction Plane in Catia. Now I've never used Catia, but I had to make some recommendations once many years ago as to how were we going to respond to certain "features" of Catia for a major customer who had a couple of hold-out divisions who were using Catia and we were trying to get them to agree to move to NX (actually UG at the time) which the other divisions had already done.
When it came to trying to provide some of the capabilities of the "2D Construction Plane", what we did was add the options that you will find if while in Modeling you go to Preferences/Work Plane... and when the "Grid" dialog comes up, select the "Display" tab and chose either the second or third option under "Objects Off Work Plane".
While I don't use this function all that much, a number of the people who have moved from Catia to UG/NX seem to appreciate how this allows them to work.
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product "Evangelist"
NX Product Line
UGS Corp
Cypress, CA
Phone: 714-952-6032
FAX: 714-952-5758
John.R.Baker@ugs.com
When it came to trying to provide some of the capabilities of the "2D Construction Plane", what we did was add the options that you will find if while in Modeling you go to Preferences/Work Plane... and when the "Grid" dialog comes up, select the "Display" tab and chose either the second or third option under "Objects Off Work Plane".
While I don't use this function all that much, a number of the people who have moved from Catia to UG/NX seem to appreciate how this allows them to work.
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product "Evangelist"
NX Product Line
UGS Corp
Cypress, CA
Phone: 714-952-6032
FAX: 714-952-5758
John.R.Baker@ugs.com
That is pretty cool, I had never tried to use the work plane while in modeling. I have only used the work plane grid in drafting when I wanted to quickly align a lot of text and/or callout bubbles.
I can see why some would like to use it in modeling.
I can see why some would like to use it in modeling.
Am I missing something here? Hasn't the XY plane (which by definition of a plane is 2D) of the WCS always been the workplane?
Also, what is an "Assoiative Basic Curve"? In NX, basic curves (created using the Basic Curve tool) have no associativity. Are you talking about 3D curves created with Insert -> Curves -> Lines and Arcs? If not, I'd be very interested in how to create a Basic Curve that has associativity.
Also, what is an "Assoiative Basic Curve"? In NX, basic curves (created using the Basic Curve tool) have no associativity. Are you talking about 3D curves created with Insert -> Curves -> Lines and Arcs? If not, I'd be very interested in how to create a Basic Curve that has associativity.
fgbender,
I am former UG user who is now working in Catia V5. At my former employer I had upgraded to NX3 just as I was leaving. From what I remember "associative curves" was new to NX3, and was accessible through the "lines and arcs" toolbar. I believe there was an associative toggle button. In any case it should show up under "what's new" in the documents.
regards, thixoguy
I am former UG user who is now working in Catia V5. At my former employer I had upgraded to NX3 just as I was leaving. From what I remember "associative curves" was new to NX3, and was accessible through the "lines and arcs" toolbar. I believe there was an associative toggle button. In any case it should show up under "what's new" in the documents.
regards, thixoguy
Yes, I recall that associative curves are new as of NX3. My question is... What is an "Associative Basic Curve"? I have been a UG user for the past 15 years, all the way back to V8, and I don't know how to create an associative curve using the Basic Curve funtion. So I ask again, Am I missing something? I only ask because I find the Basic Curve function to be much easier to use in many instances but it sure would come in handy to be able to have some associativity when using this particular tool.
Thanks
Fred Brender
Thanks
Fred Brender
![[noevil]](/data/assets/smilies/noevil.gif "[noevil] [noevil]")
misunderstanding in terms usage is what we've got here.
fgbender you're right,
"assoiative basic curves" are "3D curves" created thru "insert -> curves -> lines and arcs".
basic curves created using "insert -> curves -> basic curves..." have no associativity, as you mentioned above.
it's a little bit confusing maybe, when you concentrate on the terms.
_____________________________________
"Complex problems have simple, easy-to-understand, wrong answers."
_________________
PI Penkov
CAM Programmer
Non-standard Equipment Designer
Shadowspawn
Aerospace
fgbender,
I'm not all that up to speed with 'Associative Basic Curves' (ABC) but I do use them on occassion in a very limited sense. As John Baker stated earlier, they are not meant to be (nor should be) used as a replacement for sketched curves, but they do have their uses. Sketched curves can be fully constrained both geometrically and dimensionally, while ABC have a very limited sense of associativity.
Perhaps a simple example may help clarify... Say for example you have 2 entities (separate sketches, bodies, surfaces, associative points, whatever...) and you need to create a line between between the two to create a ruled surface (or extrusion or whatever...). You can add an ABC between two entities and the ABC curve will maintain the associativity between the two entities (the endpoints of the ABC line will maintain the geometric constraint of 'endpoint', assumming that was the associativity created). This means that if either of the two original entities move or otherwise change position, the ABC will move along with it.
Clear as mud? Remember, there is a difference between an ABC and a regular old curve from the days of old. They are in effect, 2 different animals and should be treated as such. If a sketch curve was a horse, and a 2d curve was a donkey, then an ABC would be an ass (or donkey if you prefer).
Hope this helps...
Regards,
SS
CAD should pay for itself, shouldn't it?
I'm not all that up to speed with 'Associative Basic Curves' (ABC) but I do use them on occassion in a very limited sense. As John Baker stated earlier, they are not meant to be (nor should be) used as a replacement for sketched curves, but they do have their uses. Sketched curves can be fully constrained both geometrically and dimensionally, while ABC have a very limited sense of associativity.
Perhaps a simple example may help clarify... Say for example you have 2 entities (separate sketches, bodies, surfaces, associative points, whatever...) and you need to create a line between between the two to create a ruled surface (or extrusion or whatever...). You can add an ABC between two entities and the ABC curve will maintain the associativity between the two entities (the endpoints of the ABC line will maintain the geometric constraint of 'endpoint', assumming that was the associativity created). This means that if either of the two original entities move or otherwise change position, the ABC will move along with it.
Clear as mud? Remember, there is a difference between an ABC and a regular old curve from the days of old. They are in effect, 2 different animals and should be treated as such. If a sketch curve was a horse, and a 2d curve was a donkey, then an ABC would be an ass (or donkey if you prefer).
Hope this helps...
Regards,
SS
CAD should pay for itself, shouldn't it?
![[wink]](/data/assets/smilies/wink.gif "[wink] [wink]")
Shadowspawn
Aerospace
Well by golly.... Listen to what I mean, not what I say!
Regards,
SS
CAD should pay for itself, shouldn't it?
Regards,
SS
CAD should pay for itself, shouldn't it?
JohnRBaker
Mechanical
Yes, the X-Y plane is the default selection plane, but you can select and construct "off" the X-Y plane is you SELECT points/objects that are "off" the X-Y plane. What the option, that I mentioned, under Prefernces/Work Plane... does is LIMIT your selections TO the X-Y plane, period. It's as if all the points/objects NOT on the X-Y plane were on a visible yet non-selectable layer.
As for the "Associative Basic Curves", sorry for the confusion, but this was intended to be a replacement for the old "Basic Curves" function, which while we are not removing them from the system, we will be making them harder and harder to find.
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product "Evangelist"
NX Product Line
UGS Corp
Cypress, CA
Phone: 714-952-6032
FAX: 714-952-5758
John.R.Baker@ugs.com
As for the "Associative Basic Curves", sorry for the confusion, but this was intended to be a replacement for the old "Basic Curves" function, which while we are not removing them from the system, we will be making them harder and harder to find.
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product "Evangelist"
NX Product Line
UGS Corp
Cypress, CA
Phone: 714-952-6032
FAX: 714-952-5758
John.R.Baker@ugs.com
John,
Thanks for the clarification. I was only trying to make the point that NX has and always has had the ability to work on a 2D plane.
As for the basic curves thing, I'm well aware that the old "Basic Curves" funtionality is getting harder to find. I wish that were not the case because there are times when a good old-fashioned, non-associative, point to point curves is all that is needed and it is much simpler to create than the new curves.
Thanks for the comments.
Shadowspawn,
Thanks for the comments. I am a big proponent of sketcher and would never advocate using constrained curves as a replacement for it. But since sketcher is 2D, there are times when a constrained 3D curve comes in handy. I am well aware of the new associative curve functionality. Based on the thread, I thought maybe there was a way to constrain curves created with the old basic curve tool. I am clear on it now.
Thanks
Thanks for the clarification. I was only trying to make the point that NX has and always has had the ability to work on a 2D plane.
As for the basic curves thing, I'm well aware that the old "Basic Curves" funtionality is getting harder to find. I wish that were not the case because there are times when a good old-fashioned, non-associative, point to point curves is all that is needed and it is much simpler to create than the new curves.
Thanks for the comments.
Shadowspawn,
Thanks for the comments. I am a big proponent of sketcher and would never advocate using constrained curves as a replacement for it. But since sketcher is 2D, there are times when a constrained 3D curve comes in handy. I am well aware of the new associative curve functionality. Based on the thread, I thought maybe there was a way to constrain curves created with the old basic curve tool. I am clear on it now.
Thanks
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