ATI Video Cards 2

[RBasniak]

Hi everyone...

I really have to change my GF4 That problem with SW is terrible... I'm thinking in one ATI video Card, that I think is the $$best$$ choice except GF, am I right? I'm planning to buy a ATI RADEON 9600 128Mb, but there isn't any test with this video card in the SW Support Page, does anyone knows if is there any problem with this one and SW? Does anyone here use this card with SW? Please, any comment will be appreciated

Thanks a lot...
Rodrigo Basniak

 

[djw2k3]

Hi Rodrigo,

I haven't had any experience with ATI cards but if you are going to spend cash on a card for solidworks then my only comment would be spend it on a Nvidia Quadro.

You may be able to "soft quadro" your GF4, or get hold of a soldering iron and swap a couple of resisters on it and voila - a quadro card.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the radeon 9xxx series is aimed primarily at gaming?

djw

 

[looslib]

The Radeon series are gaming cards.

Graphics cards are designed/optimized for 2 standards, OpenGL and DirectX. OpenGL cards tend to be higher priced. CAD software is written for OpenGL graphics. Games are written for DirectX. Businesses tend to buy CAD. Individuals tend to buy games.


"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli
CAD/CAM System Analyst
Ingersoll-Rand

 

[Rocko]

ATI is a big gamble when it comes to SW i would spend the $250+ on a good Nvidia Quadro Card if money is an issue then pick up a Nvidia GeForce Series card.

 

[Arlin]

An ATI Radeon series card will give you the same problems you experience with a GeForce series card and probably even more problems.

If you are really serious about getting a good compatible card for SWX, any nVidia Quadro or ATI FireGL will do fine. (But stay away fron Quadro NVS... they are not suited to CAD apps)

Personally, I believe the QuadroFX 500 is the best bang/buck right now.

Quadro4 750 XGL ~$300
Quadro4 980 XGL ~$520
QuadroFX 500 ~$300
QuadroFX 1000 ~$800
QuadroFX 2000 ~$1300
QuadroFX 3000 ~$1800

FireGL T2 ~$350
FireGL Z1 ~$380
FireGL X1 ~$500
FireGL X2 ~$800
*prices quickly summarized from

http://www.pricewatch.com

 

[rgogac]

For your information, here is some benckmarks test on SW2003

http://www.3dchips.net/content/review.php?id=63&page=25

Personaly I like ATI product and I think for the money, the ATI FireGL T2 is a good product.

http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030916/index.html

Lately, ATI is getting an edge over nvidia.
I use SW2001+, I had a nvidia Quadro2 MRX and performance was poor, I upgraded with a 3DLabs Wilcat VP550, now things are better but I wonder if I used a ATI FireGL if things will be even better.

Sorry Arlin, but I think the ATI FireGL T2 is the best bang/buck.

Olivier

 

[Arlin]

> Sorry Arlin, but I think the ATI FireGL T2 is the best bang/buck.

Yes I saw that review as well and the T2 is a very good performer, beating the FX 500 according to the numbers.

IMO, the FX 500 has a little extra value with its RealView support. Plus, I am a little partial to nVidia.

 

[LoveAeris]

There was a discussion on ATI card already.

This may be good for your reference.
thread559-65444


There is a report on SolidWorks support page including "Real View" support information.

http://www.solidworks.com/pages/services/VideoCardTesting.html

Unfortunately, 9500 to 9800 are rated as "RED" and "Notes" says "When mouse over features annotations disappear." I have 9700 Pro and I confirmed this at home, but nothing else I have noticed. It just works fine with SW2003. A main usage of the PC is for gaming, so I don't care about a minor glitch on SW.

If your main usage is for SW, I would recommend something else from "GREEN".

If it's for game, my only recommendation is 9800XT or 9600XT!!!

 

[Mandrake22]

According to the Tomshardware tests, the FX 500 ekes out a slight advantage in bang/buck in the Solidworks composite test. This is primarily due to its lower cost. The ATI T2 has an 11% performance advantage.
I have an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro at home and it seems to work fine. At work I am using a "long in the tooth" Elsa Gloria card (early Quadro) with no particular complaints. I recently tested the new Solidworks section view on the same model at home and at work. At home, with ATI, the dynamic sectioning is smooooth with no perceptible refreshing. At work, it is so slow and jerky as to be unusable. My home PC is an Athlon 2200 and I have a P4 2.0 at work.
We are hoping for PC upgrades the first of next year and I will be looking long and hard at ATI. The Realview graphics don't have much interest to us for what we do.

 

[Rocko]

Beware that SW is using Nvidia chipsets as the optimum for the software so who knows what that means down the road if you choose an ATI card.

 

[empty]

Hi Rodrigo,
I have that very same card (ATI Radeon 9600 Pro) in my system and it works fine apart from that noted in previous thread. In a sketch, your measurements can disapear! They come back with mouse over but it can get a bit frustrating if you've got a detailed sketch!!
But hey, whats life without gaming!!??
My thought was this, what's the possibility of adding a second vid card on pci, say an older cheapo Quadro for work?
Anyone know whether this would work?
I guess you'd have to reinstall vid drivers before and after each SW session.
regards to all
MT

 

[rtrnka]

We have used the Radeon 9600 pro and found that for our users that like to use the "HLR Edges" shown have encountered unhandled errors. In all cases the only way to stabilize this card is to run it with "use software open GL" selected. This WILL affect the speed and performance of Solid Works.

My suggestion: Spend a couple of hundred now and save yourself the headache.

 

[Mindnumb]

Ati Gaming card for Solidworks? Highly recommended !

I am currently using a Radeon 9500 NP card, with Firegl drivers. Performance is VERY Good. I am using This card on my home machine (athlon xp @2200 mhz 512 DDR ram WinXP), and it bests my work machine. ( P4 3200 2G DDR Ram and FX1000 Graphic.) Realview does not work Properly, though.

(lets hope someone make a wrapper for the Nvida specific shaders so they can be run on ATI cards as well)

Download Rivatuner and learn how to modify FireGl drivers to recognize your radeon series card as the FireGl equivalent.

http://download.guru3d.com/rivatuner/

You can by any Radeon 9500 series and above and get superb performance at a fraction of the price.

I DO have one problem.... Antialiasing. Looks so good its unbelivable. The problem is, only the first dokument opened "get"it , and if more dokuments are opened, performance drops to below software levels...

Is any of you Nvidia guys running with Antialiasing, I have not made it work on my work machine at all.

 

[LoveAeris]

Mindnumb,

I have 9700 Pro at home. I downloaded Rivatuner and installed yesterday, but can you instruct me a bit more how to load FireGL drivers? I don't think I can install FireGL drivers onto my 9700 Pro.

 

[1sheetmetalman]

I am also using am ATI 9500 Pro, upgraded bios to 9700 Pro and overclocking it. I also used the Soft-Fire GL drivers and it works great for all of my 3D cad stuff (SW2003, Mechanical Desktop, & Inventor).

LoveAeris,
Instructions are here:

http://www.nvworld.ru/docs/sfgl_e.html

 

[LoveAeris]

1sheetmetalman,

Thanks for the URL, but I can't install the driver. I appreciate if you can help me.

I downloaded FireGL drive from ATI web site.

http://www.ati.com/support/products...l&prod=firegl2Kdriver&submit.x=14&submit.y=11

I unpacked the file and launched SoftFireGL script from "Unified" folder since the driver is unified one. I switched a file type in a dialigbox, from "ati2mtag.sys" to "ati2mtag.sy_" after clicking "Continue" and the file was
built sucessfully and the file became "ati2mtag.sys".

I editied "CX_10409.inf" and added following lines since I have 9700Pro.
"ATI Soft Fire GL X1 SECONDARY" =FGLRY,PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E64
"ATI Soft Fire GL X1" =FGLRY,PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E44

Then, I tried to install the FireGL from device manager selecing "CX_10409.inf", but W2K gives an error saying the drive is not supported by W2K. I am stacking here.



By the way, I assume I am able to switch between 9700Pro and FileGL by RivaTuner. Am I right?

 

[1sheetmetalman]

LoveAeris,

I'm used Rivatuner just to create a set of patched softgl drivers (then I deleted rivatuner). I'm not sure if the solfgl script (in rivatuner) supports the latest ati drivers. I'm using an older driver than the one you pointed to (ver 7.88.4.1).
Driver Version 6.13.10.1034 filename is glx1_w2k_xp.zip (~17.5 mb).
I'm using device manager from that point on (device manager is using atiixpgl.inf from the patched driver set).
I can switch between my 9700 Pro and SoftFire GL X1 thru the device manager.
Hope this helps.

 

[Mindnumb]

I have succesfully used the unified firegldrivers.

I used the unified patch script to patch the unpacked drivers, and the control panel. I noticed that some of the patch scrips did not find any file to patch, but that did not cause any problems. Th script does not automatically recognize different file extention names (like file.dll might be file.dl_ ) so you shuld check for both file extention types.


After patching I right click on my desktop, choose properties/settings/advanced/adapter/properties/driver/update Choose location, have disk. Browse to pathed drivers.

This is for WinXp, so it might be slightly different for Win2000, but I dont think it should cause any trouble.

If you have no luck with th unified drivers, try the 1036 drivers from dell. If you cant find them, put an email adress here, and I´ll try and send you some.

Rivatuner does not let you switch on and of the firegl features instantly, you have to install the 9700 drivers again to "get rid of it", but as far as I have seen, most games run as good or even better, at least with the unified drivers. I experienced problems with the hulk and the 1036 drivers, but i have not tried the unified ones on that game just yet.


Best of luck !

Best of luck !

 

[LoveAeris]

Thanks, 1sheetmetalman and Mindnumb.

1028 driver works and I made sure the one issue officially posted as a known problem with 9700Pro was gone with FireGL driver. I run "FINAL FANTASY XI for Windows - Official Benchmark Program 2" with FireGL driver and the result was about same. Ragnarokonline works with FireGL as well, so I decide to keep FireGL instead of switching drivers.

I am very very happy with FireGL on Radeon, but I am not sure how reliable the combination is. Also, you have to know what you are doing and how to recover if something happens to do this. I am writing what I did as much detail as I could, but try it at your risk.


1. Download RiverTuner and install.

http://download.guru3d.com/rivatuner/

2. Download FireGL 1028, which is certified driver for SolidWorks SP3.

http://www.ati.com/support/drivers/firegl/win2k/cert/win2kfiregl8x1z1cert613101028.html

3. Execute the downloaed file, "fireglx1z1-win2kxp-1028.exe". You should get an error after unpacking and go ahead and cancel. Just remember where you unpacked.

4. Run RiverTuner and click "Power user" tab. There are bunch of icons on the bottom. Click the 3rd icon from left to"open patch script" Go to PatchScript>ATI>SoftFireGL>1024+ and select "SoftFireGL w2k.rts"

5. Select "force FireGL X1 capabilities" from the bottom and hit "Continue"

6. Go to where you unpacked the driver and go to 1028>drivers and select "ati2mtgl.sys". Make sure the process has been successfully done. Exit RiverTuner.

7. There is "atiixpgl.inf" in the same folder. Open to edit and add following lines under "[ATI.Mfg]" section.

ATI Soft Fire GL X1 SECONDARY=FGLRY,PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E64
ATI Soft Fire GL X1=FGLRY,PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E44

8. Right click on "My computer" and select "Manage". Go to Device manager and expand "Display Adaptor". Right Click on "Radeon 9700 Pro" and select "Driver" tab to update driver. Select "atiixpgl.inf"and you should see "ATI
Soft Fire GL X1" that you previously added and follow your screen to finish.

 

[NickE]

Just a question for those that are jumping thru hoops to make non-compatible/semi-compatible cards for SW.

How much time do you suppose that you have spent working around the semi-compliant video card? Is your time of that little value?

Just wondering if the financial value of 100-200$ is really worth it. I found Quadro4 750 xgl cards for as low as 320$ and not more than 375$. High-end gaming cards cost 150-300$ anyway and at that savings the $ dont beat the time.

nick