Austinetic Stainless Steel (316) 1

[SpeedOnIce]

Hi I have a question: I have a (316) austinetic stainless steel pipe that I am looking to harden not sure how to go about this process.
I was thinking induction? Or: EndurAlloy a boronizing process. (

http://www.endurancetechnologies.com)

The pipe is meant to go on the bottom of a sled that rides on ice aprox. 120-130km/hr. The idea is that the harder the steel the less heat transfer between the ice and steel which should translate into faster speeds.
I have tried cryogenic treating it has resulted in a nicer polish smoother finsh but thats about it.
I have thought about coating but the steel can not change color (grey) and I have yet to find a coating or method that would not negatively effect the steels coefficent of friction value. I have had some tests done and the pipe already posesses a low RA value so smoothnes is not an issue but hardness is.

Any help would be apreciated. The more info the better.

 

[arunmrao]

316 is not amenable to hardening treatment. If you need stainlessnesss and also hardness you could look for 17/4 or similar grades of stainless steel.

There is a patented process by Bodycote "Kolsterizing", you can contact them for details.

Save water Drink Beer

 

[SpeedOnIce]

Unfortunately I have to use a 316 steel so another one is not an option.
This process of Kolsterizing can it be done to a 316 steel?

What about coatings do you know of any that would make the steel pip harder but retain its smothness?

 

[arunmrao]

Yes it is possible for 316 grade too. You may refer the link given for more details

http://www.kolsterising.bodycote.com

Save water Drink Beer

 

[btrueblood]

"The idea is that the harder the steel the less heat transfer between the ice and steel which should translate into faster speeds. "

???

Did I miss something in physics class?

 

[saberblue]

you might want to look at applying a finish on the tubing that ran in the direction of travel -- yes this would increase the area of conact but if the loading is low enought so that the ice does not melt you might actual get a substancial reduction in the amount of pipe in contact with the ice altrnatvely if the finish was designed right the ridges created by the finish might act like the blade on and ice skate melting the ice and allowing the blade to float on a film of water (hydrodynamic film)

dempending on size and volume you could do this manually with something like a Dyna Brade or build some type of brushing system etc.

just a thought

 

[EdStainless]

as in runners or blades? You need something hard, no surface treatment on 316 will get you there. Don't you need limited contact surface? A pipe will give you very large contact area, and poor friction characteristics. Smooth doesn't help you here.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Plymouth Tube

 

[SpeedOnIce]

Changing the amount of runner contact with the ice is possible, but you need to keep in mind that the less runner contact the less control the sled will have so there is a balance there.
By "pipe" I meant a general characteristic of the runner itself. I am sorry to be so vauge with the information regarding the characteristics of the "pipe" in question as well as its use but there are some parameters that need to be met such as protecting a lasered stamp that is on the steel as well as not altering its color.

I am not sure I follow you on "smooth doesn't help here" the smoother the surface the less friction will exist the faster the sled should travel.
I agree that you do need something hard that is the idea of this post to find some way to harden the 316 steel even if it is just a surface treatment.

As for "btrueblood" comment, there is 1 accepted truth in this process that I am involved in and that is this: the harder the runner the faster the sled travells even if it is skidding and hitting walls.

But to summarize yes the idea is to harden the steel in some fashion or apply a coating which so far has proven to be very dificult.
The Kolsterizing proces looks very promising.
Any other ideas would be awesome.

 

[vesselfab]

AHHH

A LUGER

 

[SpeedOnIce]

Sort of, hahaha, that being said can you help!

 

[EdStainless]

competitive ice equipment that I have seen all use tool steel for runner material. I have helped someone make such for ice boats.
The problem that I see with 316 is that you might get surface hardness, but the bulk hardness will remain low.
You can always grind or polish the hardened surface. Having a great surface finish on the starting material doesn't assure you of anything.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Plymouth Tube

 

[SpeedOnIce]

I respect that other steels may be better for this purpouse but that being said I have no chice but to use a 316 steel it is what I am provided with and am forced to use. That is one of the regulations I am handcuffed with. Hopefully now you can see my problem.

I also agree a polished surface ensures nothing other than a smother running surface. It is hardness that is the goal.

 

[saberblue]

What about having the material coated with carbide or even diamond if cost isn't a major issue -- get ahold of the coating people at one of the carbide cutting tool manufactures

 

[SpeedOnIce]

That is a good idea the only concern for me there is will the coating alter the appearance of the steel?

 

[btrueblood]

"... the harder the runner the faster the sled travells even if it is skidding and hitting walls. "

Fair enough. But what does heat transfer have to do with it, or more specifically, how do you expect a hardness treatment of the blade to affect heat transfer.

FWIW, a link to the shop that arunmao is

http://www.kolsterising.bodycote.com/pdfs/kolsterising_hi.pdf

 

[arunmrao]

taking a clue from saberblue,can you consider inserting diamond or carbide tips along the contact surface? This way you have extreme hardness and wear resitance on your 316 .

Save water Drink Beer

 

[SpeedOnIce]

I have actually never thought about that, where can I find info on that type of application?

 

[arunmrao]

Look for rock drill bits applications to get an idea.Perhaps if youcould talk to Sandvik application experts they may be of more help.



Save water Drink Beer

 

[SpeedOnIce]

Thnks for all the help guys unfortunately the Kolstering will not be an option as the runner is to long for the unit that exists in North America.

I am curious about inserting diamond and or carbide tips into the steel. I am will look more into it and post on here to see if someone has a link for a company in North America that does this?

 

[btrueblood]

Generally, the carbide is mechanically clamped to the tool, or is brazed on. Both methods are likely to be visually obvious (i.e. unlikely to pass a pre-race inspection). If the blade/runner has a bowed profile fore-to-aft, you will need to have a continuous piece of carbide specially formed (typically via PM & sinter process) in order to reproduce that profile and have a smooth surface.