AutoCAD 2013 - Block Over Viewport Disappears!

[11echo]

I've got a problem with AutoCAD 2013 that's driving me nuts! I have a semi large drawing file in model space, I've used the layout tabs in paper space for the drawing title block. I have about 16 tabs, one for each drawing, with a viewport for each area. Everything was going good, I'm about 90% complete, when I try to put in a north arrow (in paper space) on each of my drawings. I made a north arrow block (in paper space and using only one layer) and I start plugging my north arrow on in the corner of the viewport (that constitutes the area of the drawing I made), everything is going fine, in the first 4 drawing tabs, but then I try to insert my block the next 3 drawings and it disappears! It looked like it was trying to load my block, when you called the block up you could see it, but once you try to insert it at a point over the viewport it disappears! I tried a couple of times and the same thing happen. SO I moved on to drawings 8 and on, and it works fine again! I tried to erase the viewport on the effected drawings, and re-generate a new viewport (once I deleted the first view port I now could see all the north arrows I tried to plug in, but with a new view port the north arrows again disappear. I even inserted a north arrow block half in and half off the view port, every part of the block in the viewport area disappears, but not outside the viewport. I checked all the layers, nothing is turned off or not visible, but I am clueless at this point ...any ideas?

 

[Sparweb]

My first guess is DRAWORDER, but I didn't think that normally applied to PS viewports.

Do you use WIPEOUT?

You might look at the properties of the viewports themselves. Perhaps there is a "on top" or "on bottom" property to a VP. In fact that sort-of rings a bell.

It is possible to inadvertently double-click a PS viewport, which enables access to the Model space "through" it, just before starting the block insert command. In those conditions you could be inserting the North arrow block in model space, not paper space as you expected. Furthermore, you may have layers that are frozen through the specific viewport, which could also hide the north arrow if dropped into model space rather than in paper space.

You could also do a test insert of the block - half on half off, just on the edge of the viewport. Is half of it visible? Try some of the experiments I've mentioned until it's fully visible.

Have you opened the block with BEDIT to look at what's in the North arrow block? Maybe there's a WIPEOUT in the block?

STF

 

[IFRs]

Set MaxActVP (Maximum Active Viewports) to a higher value ?

 

[IFRs]

Sorry - that was bad advice once I re-read the OP.
If the viewports are on their own layer, try putting them on another layer and keep the layer on and thawed but non plotting, particularly if the viewports are set for anything other than 2D Wireframe

 

[IFRs]

I would never use a block for North in PS - put the block in MS and use a VP in PS. Copy the VP to multiple drawing tabs after adjusting MaxActVP if needed.

 

[Sparweb]

IFR's
PS is where the title block and the annotations belong on muti-sheet drawings. That's exactly what it is designed for. Did I misunderstand your point?
The north arrow is not the content of the map. It is an annotation. It belongs in paper space.

STF

 

[IFRs]

If MS includes a plan view, I put North there, so if the model gets rotated in a viewport in PS, the North arrow naturally follows. I'm not militant about this but have been burned when making user UCS to rotate the content in a viewport for clarity and neglecting to rotate the North arrow in PS.

In any case, are the viewports that obstruct your North block set for anything other than 2D Wireframe? Are they rectangular viewports? Does manipulating the layer states to on and thawed but non plotting help?

 

[RHTPE]

SparWeb - I respectfully disagree with you regarding the North arrow. It is a very important annotation that relates directly to the model and should always be in Model Space.

I agree with IFRs regarding this for the very same reason. ViewPorts in Paper Space can sometimes be rotated to better convey information - the North arrow stays in its correct relative position by putting it in Model Space.


Ralph
Structures Consulting
Northeast USA

 

[11echo]

I didn't use wipeout, and guys I'm not worried about "how" to put in a north arrow, but I'm wondering WHY the north arrow block works ok in some drawings and not others ...in the same file!!?

 

[RHTPE]

I promise not to comment on where the North arrow should be. But I will try playing with this phenomena today to see if I can duplicate it.

- What Layer are the entities on that comprise your North Arrow?
- What was the Current Layer when you inserted the North arrow?
- Have you checked the Layer Freeze property in the Viewport (MS) and in the Layout (PS)? I have had situations when working on a Layout tab I go to insert a block (in PS) and I cannot see it. Seems that PS has its own "ViewPort" and sometimes (don't ask me why or how) Layers get Frozen in PS (the rightmost columns in the Layer Manager).
- Have you forced the North arrow block to be on top using draworder?

Just trying to help, so please don't be annoyed with my questions.





Ralph
Structures Consulting
Northeast USA

 

[Sparweb]

Hi 11echo,
Did you try anything we suggested? Did it work?

PS: if you're not interested in our debate you can ignore it!


IFR's and RHTPE,
You point is well made, so I'll concede that a North arrow does belong in MS.
I won't debate it either, since it seems distracting.

STF

 

[11echo]

All the components of my North Arrow block are on layer "0", I've checked both the layer and view port for visibility and everything is "on" and "unfrozen", and I went into drawing order and tried to put up my north arrow on top ...to no avail. The thing that bothers me the most is this block works fine in 75% of all my drawings, but only the few drawings are messing up. PS ...I even tried to copy a drawing tab and just reposition the old view in the copied drawing ...the copy picks up the problem of the drawing I'm trying to replace. Now because I have a package review in afew days I went in MS space and placed the north arrow there, so I can at least make prints of the drawings, but I hate this "hidden button" some place the Autodesk always seems to squeeze in!
Please, I'm not annoyed with the discussion of north arrow placement, I'm only trying to focus everybody on the original problem so I can make it thru my drawing review. ...However me personally, I believe north placement is dictated by two things ...drawing discipline, and good drafting practices. ...BUT that's another story!

 

[11echo]

I'VE GOT IT! ..."Shademode" needs to be set at "2Dwireframe"! ...THX to CarlB where ever you are!

 

[CarlB]

You're welcome. I don't even remember that I once knew that

 

[RHTPE]

Ah ha! I think I encountered that once or twice and just fumbled through a whole bunch of settings - solved the problem but couldn't pinpoint which actually solved the problem.

There are so many little tweaks we all do in our day-to-day use of AutoCAD - very few of them remain available in our memories and then when we DON'T have those improvements (or tweaks) we scour our memory trying to recall exactly what to do.

Well 11echo good for you - the mystery is solved.

Ralph
Structures Consulting
Northeast USA