B31.3 and ASME Section IX QW 403.6 impact test requirement

[mandmm]

Dear All,

a) I need to prepare WPS for the range 3 to 20 mm as per B 31.3.can you please let me know what are the PQR coupons required?with impact.

b)As i know As per B 31.3 Table 323.3.1 A 5 says:Impact test requirement thickness qualification: T/2 to T+6 mm for the Thickness T.
I e i need to carry one impact test on for the base metal range T/2 to T+ 6.
Example : for 5 mm sample (impact test coupon) :2.5 to 10 mm qualify
for 10 mm sample 5 to 20 mm qualify

As per QW 403.6 further restrict base metal thickness qualification
less than 6 mm base metal qualification is T/2 to 2T
and 6 mm & above is base metal qualification is min T or 16 mm which ever is min.

let consider
for the 3 to 20 mm range .
if i take 6 and 15 mm sample (B 31.3 full fill impact test requirement but QW 403.6 not fulfilled. I e 6 mm coupon qualify 6 to 12 mm not the range 3 to 5.9 mm and for 15 mm qualify 15 to 21 mm not the range 12 to 14 mm )

Note 1: for 6 mm coupon: As per SEC IX qw 403.6 qualify T to 2T ( 6 to 12 mm) But Impact qualify as per B31.3 is 3 to 12 mm.
So qualification range (stringent restriction) Min 6 (QW 403.6 not permitted 3 to 5.9 mm because its impact qualification not thickness ) and Max 12 mm( B 31.3 allows T+6 mm and same as QW 403.6 2T )
Note 2:for 15 mm coupon: As per SEC IX qw 403.6 qualify T to 2T ( 15 to 30 mm) But Impact qualify as per B31.3 is 7.5 to 21 mm.

So qualification range (stringent restriction) Min 15 (QW 403.6 not permitted 7.5 to 15 mm because its impact qualification not thickness ) and Max 21 mm( B 31.3 not allows more than T+6 mm even though QW 403.6 permit 30 mm )

However many people are using only B 31.3 standard for qualification.
Example :WPS range 3 to 20 mm took 6 mm and 15 mm
WPS range 3.5 to 14 mm to took 7 mm sample

Is it correct above WPS? as per B 31.3?

please answer one who understand the B 31.3 Table 323.3.1 A5 and QW 403.6.

 

[metengr]

If the code of construction is B31.3, you follow the specific requirements for WPS impact qualification. If the requirements for impact qualification are more stringent than Section IX, so be it. Remember Section IX is a service code book and when a code of construction requires more stringent requirements, they must be followed.

 

[mandmm]

B31.3 talk about impact test qualification range not thickness qualification rang
QW 403.6 talk about only thickness qualification

i e when you have range thickness in your WPS 3-20 mm

first consider impact test specimen preparation for the range 3-20 mm
as per 31.3 impact test qualification range is t/2 to t+6 mm
so u can take 6 mm and 10 mm to fulfill this above range

however as per qw 403.6
for 6 mm: qualification range is 6 to 12 mm
for 10 mm :qualification range is 10 to 20 mm

so now consider

6 mm coupon

B 31.3 impact qualification covers 3 to 12 mm, however QW 403.6 Base metal thickness qualification range 6 to 12 mm but we cant consider less than 6 mm (i e 3 to 5.9 mm only impact test qualified range )


10 mm coupon

B 31.3 impact qualification covers 5 to 16 mm, however QW 403.6 Base metal thickness qualification range 10 to 16 mm but we cant consider less than 10 mm (i e 5 to 9.9 mm only impact test qualified range and cant go more than 16 mm as per 31.3 even though QW 403.6 permit because its not qualified in impact test range)

i hope its clear

its very simple as per B31.3 base metal thickness qualification with section ix qw 403.6
< 6 mm coupon :WPS range is 1/2T to 2T (for 5 mm coupon 2.5 to 10 mm)
6 to <16 mm coupon :WPS range is T to T+6 (for 10 mm coupon 10 to 16 mm)
>16 mm coupon :WPS range is 16to T+6 mm (for 17 mm coupon 16 to 23 mm)

any body have questions on above range?please let me know .don't get confuse with thickness range (QW 403.6)and impact test range as per B 31.3 two are different qualifications we have to apply impact test range into QW 403.6 limits

 

[metengr]

Maybe I did not make myself clear. First you review B31.3 to determine the extent of impact testing base material and fabrication welds. Next, you review in B31.3 how WPS are to be qualified, see below

328.2 Welding and Brazing Qualification
Welding and brazing procedure specifications (WPSs
and BPSs) to be followed in production welding shall
be prepared and qualified, and welders, brazers, and
operators shall be qualified as required by the
ASME BPV Code, Section IX except as modified by
para. 333 for brazing of Category D Fluid Service piping
and by the following subparagraphs.

1. In B31.3, Table 323.3.1 specifies the location and number of impact tests for base material and fabrication welds to be completed, and to record the data. It says nothing about WPS qualification - see 328.2.

2. The impact test requirements (number and location)in Table 323.3.1 are performed after a WPS has been impact qualified. The applicable thickness range for the WPS per Section IX should include the thickness range for impact testing per Table 323.3.1.

See below

323.3.1 General. When impact testing is required
by Table 323.2.2, provisions elsewhere in this Code, or
the engineering design, it shall be done in accordance
with Table 323.3.1 using the testing methods and acceptance
criteria described in paras. 323.3.2 through 323.3.5.

The above states nothing about WPS qualification only impact testing for base material and fabrication welds.

 

[DekDee]

mandmm,
All your numbers are making my head spin.
Read what metengr has written and then come back and explain why you are impact testing 3 mm steel ?
Regards,
DD

 

[david339933]

DekDee,

How come you aren't throwing interpretations 4-17 and 24-29 at metenger?!?

 

[metengr]

So shall it be written, so shall it be done.

 

[david339933]

Metengr, I ask because I wrote the same thing and was crucified by many members of this forum......


Link

 

[metengr]

Keep up the good work David, It pays to be in good company. I sometimes forget to recommend review of interpretations. Being on BPV I standards committee I do appreciate interpretations. Typically for me if more than 5 interpretations are issued on the same subject it is time for a code revision.

 

[DekDee]

David,
The important thing to recognise is the material thickness range given in B31.3 takes precedence over ASME IX as clearly stated in the interpretations I posted previously.
Here is another one

Interpretation: 20-10
Subject: ASME 831.3-2002 Edition, Table 323.3.1, Welding Procedure Qualified Thickness Range and HAZ Impact Location
Date Issued: October 20, 2004
File: 831-04-00498
Question (1): In accordance with ASME 831.3-2002 Edition, when a material with a pipe wall thickness of 1/2 in. requires impact testing per the requirements of para. 323.3, is the qualified base metal thickness range for production welding, per A-5(a) of Table 323.3.1, 1/4 to ¾ in.?
Reply (1): Yes.

The interpretation in your link from DeanIEng clearly states the requirements of QW 403.10 must be met for B31.3 piping but I have seen no mention anywhere of the requirement to comply with the thickness range of QW 403.6 - the interpretations actually state the opposite.

This from the Introduction of ASME IX

Section IX is a document referenced for the qualification of material joining processes by various construction
codes such as Section I, III, IV, VIII, XII, etc. These particular construction codes apply to specific types of fabrication and may impose additional requirements or exemptions to Section IX qualifications.

Regards,
DD

 

[mandmm]

Dear All,

Thanks

Please guid me, i need to prepaqre WPS for the range less than 6 mm(actual thickness 4.55 mm)as per B 31.3 and as per the interpretation 4-17.

Subject: Table 323.3.1, Impact Testing Requirements for Metals (631.3-2008)
Date Issued: October 3, 2013
File: 13-1549
Question: In accordance with ASME 831.3-2008, Table 323.3.1, box A-5, is the qualified thickness
range T / 2 to T + 6 mm (!'4 in.)?
Reply: Yes. Also see previous Interpretation 4-17.

Interpretation: 4-17
Subject:
Date Issued:
File:
327.5.Hd) and 327.5.2
January 29, 1986
B31-85-031
c
Question (1): When qualifying welding procedures which require impact testing, is the basic
qualified thickness range t/2 to t + 6. mm. rather than the range given in Section IX of the ASME Boiler
and Pressure Vessel Code of the lesser of 5/8 in., and t to 2t as in QW-403.6 (where t is thickness of
test coupon)?
Reply (1): Yes.

please suggest me PQR sample thickness .

Thanks.

 

[DekDee]

mandmm,
Your original post was 3 to 20 mm.
If your minimum now is 4.55 mm then 2 x PQR's are required.
9 mm coupon gives you 4.5 to 15 mm and 15 mm coupon gives you 7.5 to 21 mm,
Hope that helps,
Cheers,
DD

 

[DekDee]

Guys,
A proposal has been sent out to ballot to align the B31.3 thickness requirements for CVN testing on Welding Procedure qualification coupons with ASME IX (plus a few other bits and pieces).
Will keep you all posted on something that has created many a headache in the past,
Cheers,
DD

 

[metengr]

Good Luck. Trying to harmonize code rules between code book sections is like herding cats.

 

[DekDee]

metengr,
Agree completely.
Having Walt Sperko on both committees will go a long way towards getting it over the line,
Cheers,
DD

 

[metengr]

DekDee
I know Walt Sperko well because he is involved with ASME B&PV Code and attends NBIC meetings, as I do. However, one man will not do it.