Bad idea or common practice?

[trainguy]

Hi guys.

I'd appreciate any help on this. Picture this - Montreal, COLD winters, HOT summers.

I'm looking at purchasing a house with a forced air HVAC system. THis is a 2 story + basement townhouse unit with an attached common garage adjacent to the basement. My offer to purchase has been accepted.

The home inspector has pointed out (verbally and not in writing) that the system has no return air ducts, it sucks in air from the basement (and from up the stairs etc). Because there is a door to the garage in the basement, the inspector showed some concern that air from the garage could be fed thru the home. We have noticed that the door is quite well sealed.

There is also an exhaust duct that goes from the dryer (in an adjacent room to the furnace room) out to the garage. I think the negative pressure at the basement could pull air in thru this dryer duct when the dryer is not on. I have some concern that this system may be unsafe, and could contribute to poor air quality. The inspector recommended (again only verbally) that CO detectors be installed at each floor level.

1) Am I being too cautious?

2) My wife is considering walking away from this otherwise ideal home. Is this manageable with some minor mods?

3) Can you add something to a duct that only makes air flow in 1 direction?

4) What is the approx cost of adding a return air duct up to the main floor, or to the outdoors?

tg

 

[MintJulep]

It all sounds easily fixable.

It's common to simply use a stud bay of an uninsulated interior wall for a return air plenum, so return ducting would only need to be done in the basement, and a couple of holes cut in an interior wall and the floor deck.

Assuming the clothes drier is gas fired, it needs to be vented to the outside, not to the garage. Easy enough to fix. I've got to believe that this is a code violation, and you should be able to get the seller to pony-up for this.

CO detectors are cheap.

 

[MintJulep]

I'm curious as to why the inspector won't commit these items to his written report?

The real purpose of the home inspection is to give the buyer a list of defects to shake at the seller and demand a credit. He's not doing his job if he won't put these into his report.

 

[trainguy]

Thanks for the tips mint.

Agree with the questionable practice of the inspector. I believe he's motivated to, within reason, make everyone happy.

A very real consequence of this hot Canadian market is that if we try a shake-up, the seller will simply say no, let us walk, and turn to one of the other offers.

Definitely a sellers market.

Your opinion is very much in line with other experts I've talked to.

Cheers.

tg

 

[MintJulep]

Maybe things are different up in the Great White North. In the US the home inspector works for the buyer. He should be motivated to make you happy.

Also, most states in the US have disclosure laws. If the drier vent into the garage is a code violation (and I've got to believe that it is) then the seller is legally obligated to disclose this violation to any potential future buyer once he is made aware of it (or fix the problem).

At any rate, you're not talking about more than $1000 or $1500 to fix all of this, so if everything else looks good go for it.

Good luck.

 

[IRstuff]

Add: the US home inspector is PAID by the buyer, and must work in his interest.

That said, bad practices abound everywhere in the world.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[kbs]

tg-
If the basement is unfinished getting return air from the first level up and ducting to the furnace is relatively easy.

IRstuff-
Unfortunately up "north of 40" the home inspector is frequently arranged by the buyers realtor. Possibly a bad situation for a naive buyer.

kbs

 

[IRstuff]

The buyer's realtor is supposed to represent the buyer, and not the seller, though...

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[MintJulep]

There are only a handful of states that allow "buyer's agency" - a realtor that actually works for and represents the interests of the buyer.

Otherwise, all realtors work for the seller.

 

[EEJaime]

trainguy,
As all have stated these seem very fixable issues, and should not deter you from the purchase, however you should ask the seller to cover the cost of the code fix, I just wouldn't state it as a deal breaker.

As to your third question, yes there is, it is called a backdraft damper and is readily available from your local mechanical supply center, or home centers.

AS to item four, you can't add a return duct to the outdoors as air return by definition is from the supplied space, and THAT should not be a major issue if you can access a location on the first floor that you can either place a floor register, or somewhere you can get a duct up to an upper level. Note that the location, (high or low in the space), of the return air register will alter your return air temperature between summer and winter as you will be returning either cooled or heated air and that should be thought through.

I would definitely recommend adding a small fresh air duct into the return to not allow the supply air to entrain garage air. The fumes and odors may become an issue. But these Mechanical experts can speak to that better than I. I've built a couple houses, but always get my Mechanical colleagues advice on these kind of design issues.

MintJulep: I don't know that that is regulated in most states, is it? I know that the listing agent for a property always represents the Seller, but when you sign up with a realtor to look for a house to buy, he is working for you, the Buyer, and if he is taking his 3% commission, he better be looking out for my best interest, or I'm going to another realtor. It is somewhat different if you purchase a property that your realtor is also listing as then his loyalty is divided. He wants to get the best price for the Seller, but he should be professional in representing you if you have procured his services to purchase a house. But then he's got a 6% commission to work with. (Using figures that may be somewhat dated).
My apologies for taking this thread so far off-topic.

Regards,
EEJaime

 

[RossABQ]

EEJ, sad but true, realtors all work for the seller in the US, unless they are a Buyer's Agent. Ask your realtor directly, if they tell you anything different, run, don't walk, to someone else. Frequently buyers hire a lawyer to handle the transactions for this very reason.

 

[dvd]

This place sounds like a mess to me. My opinion is that the return air should be ducted.

Regarding running return air through the stud space: look at how big the return air opening is on the furnace and ask yourself if you can easily get that much area inside of a stud space. The answer is not in one stud space, but several.

Your house will be very drafty due to the upstairs air returning through the stairwell and then mixing with the downstair air that needs to find the basemnent stairwell.

Have you visited the house with a thermometer to see how warm the rooms are? This is a situation where you have probably been moving around inside the dwelling while visiting and never been seated for long enough to notice that it is not comfortable inside.

You will most likely be uncomfortable inside this home. Ultimately you will need to ask a heating and cooling contractor how much it would cost to rectify the situation. My guess is that to fix it for upstairs and downstairs to have return air would be expensive. You may never be able to achieve the correct amount of return air from the upstairs unless you put a unit in the attic space.

 

[trainguy]

Everyone:

Thanks for the valuable input. I was there for 2 hours a few days ago during pretty cold weather, and we were quite comfortable. Anyway - it's a done deal - we take ownership June 1, and we have a month to do light renovations.

Interesting note - there is a laundry chute from the bedroom floor to the basement. That could present an opportunity.

As everything else about the home was ideal, we have decided the return air problem is manageable, maybe not dirt cheap, but manageable.

tg