Basic Trigonometry 4

[appot]

i graduated college in 2010. I recently passed my PE exam. Things are going as planned. Except that I have become trigonometrically challenged...let me explain

During school I could solve truss member forces (or any trigonetric problem) without even thinking. Now, I have to draw a triangle, then slowly draw complimentary and supplementary angles, then "Soh cah toa."

Is this the slow beginning of a mid-life crisis? I am tempted buy some educational computer game targeted to 8th graders so I can become more intimate with trig again. Any suggestion on game titles?

The part that really boggles me is that I use trig nearly everyday, but I have never used calculus during my career and I remember random derivatives and integrals like they are tattooed on the back of my eyelids.

I am too young for Alzheimer's. Can someone please tell me that I am not the only one suffering from lack of trigonetric identity.

In all seriousness, have you lost your previous quick-wittedness in areas before? What did you do, if anything?

Thanks in advance, this really is bothering me.

 

[zdas04]

My 13 year old granddaughter asked me why she needs to know algebra and trig. I am NOT going to have her read this thread. Do CAD in lieu of trig? Heresy (although I've done it too).

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Oh, nobody reading this should think they wasted time learning it. What they did waste time on was wrote memorization. As long as you KNOW that triple integrals exist, and know that if you had to sit down and google a little you could do one, then you're good to go. I will never understand primary education's fixation on memorization of stuff that should be looked up.

Maine Professional and Structural Engineer.

http://www.fepc.us

 

[BUGGAR]

"I will never understand primary education's fixation on memorization of stuff that should be looked up."

Follow through with a look up spell check on wrote vs rote. Rote memorization taught me that.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

I'm committing everything to memory so when I'm sucked into a time warp and sent back to the 18th century, I will be a scientific GOD! Muhahahahhaaaaaa

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[zdas04]

Dan,
I like your evil plan. I bet LED lighting would be a big hit in the 1700's.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist

 

[HamburgerHelper]

I don't think I solved even one differential equation by hand even in grad school. I understood them but if I ran into something non-trivial, I fell back on my TI-89 or some software package. Looking back, I think a lot of my math classes were taught kind of backwards. When I took calculus, they just kept throwing different methods for integrating equations at you. If I taught the class, I would start with and spend more time on being able to interpret and understand the results from an integral than spending so much time on methods of integration.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

The LEDs will be awesome, but the sack-of-potatoes battery will be a real bear to lug around...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[kacarrol]

I think it's a good idea to have some things memorized. Would you really want to go to your doctor and instead of them saying "you have measles" they say "I remember reading about this, let's google it and see what you have". Same thing in engineering, who do you have more confidence in? The person who knows stuff off the top of their head, or the person that googles it and sends out an email later.

 

[JNieman]

"Same thing in engineering, who do you have more confidence in? The person who knows stuff off the top of their head, or the person that googles it and sends out an email later."

If I asked an American structural engineer "Is a W10x22 a standard beam size?" and they gave me any response other than "Yes" then I'd have no confidence in them.

If I asked a structural engineer "What size beam do we need here?" and the response was that they'd get back to me on that shortly, I'd understand, though. Some will be able to look at a situation and say "You'll be fine with a C10x15.3 at 5' spacing" off the bat and be fine, but some will care to crunch a few numbers first and I wouldn't begrudge either their answer.

_________________________________________
NX8.0, Solidworks 2014, AutoCAD, Enovia V5

 

[KENAT]

The really good engineers I know/have known seem to have a lot of this stuff in memory and can do quick feasibility calcs in their head etc.

Whether the memorization is what makes them really good I'm not sure of but there is some correlation.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

GAHH!!! [At my typo and BUGGAR's hilarious comment on it.]

Point taken, obviously some things need to be memorized. Spelling and grammar obviously among them. That said, I still feel most of the STEM fundamentals we learn in primary school don't need to be memorized to be effectively used. Memorization should happen through repetitive use or need to use them quickly without reference (survival skills for example). I remember SOH CAH TOA because I use it quite often, I don't remember how to hand calculate a stiffness matrix because I haven't done one since college. But I know how it works and know how to apply them.

Maine Professional and Structural Engineer.

http://www.fepc.us

 

[IRstuff]

My son has no problem with this sort of scenario. Most math he learns vaporizes after the class is over. What a PITA, since his next class is usually based on the foundations taught in the previous class.

"most of the STEM fundamentals" does not equal "stiffness matrix"

I think there are "fundamentals" that should be ingrained, because the subsequent information cannot be readily understood without understanding the fundamental materials. Memorizing stiffness matrices just makes you more of a nerd... ;-)

TTFN
faq731-376

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529


Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
There is a homework forum hosted by engineering.com:

http://www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Those should be separate arguments; "most of the STEM fundamentals we learn in primary school don't need to be memorized to be effectively used" is separate from my point about "memorization should happen through repetitive use or need to use them quickly without reference." Obviously a stiffness matrix is not a fundamental mathematical concept.

I'd also revise my statement to replace "most" with "many". Many fundamentals don't need to be memorized; "most" was too broad and misleading from my intent. Obviously certain fundamentals need to be memorized and repeatedly refreshed if they are needed again but easily forgotten (as appears to be your sons case). Everyone needs to know 2+2=4 to get through daily life, most people memorize this because they use it often. This was the point that I was trying to make; if a skill is useful it will become memorized, or at least an attempt will be made to memorize it.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't have memorized some basic facts of science, math, language, history, and so on. My point was that there are many aspects of the skills we learn in education that are taught and tested from memory alone. Obviously memorizing something makes it easier to prove you learned it but it doesn't accurately reflect what should be learned in my opinion; the existence, application, and usage of the fundamental skill being taught. Thus, the fact that most people forget much of what they memorized in school seems justified.

Maine Professional and Structural Engineer.

http://www.fepc.us

 

[Triangled]

For me, it's a sin of insufficient ram.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

I have plenty of RAM... my problem is I have a 64-bit memory and a 32-bit addressing system :-/ And my control lines are flaky, along with the occasional brown-out.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[SNORGY]

My parents taught me never to cosine anything, but perhaps I'm off on a tangent.
I try to do trigonometry, but, see? can't.

 

[Ron]

Snorgy...sounds like MBA influence to me!

 

[JNieman]

SNORGY, sounds like you're high on pot 'n use too much.

_________________________________________
NX8.0, Solidworks 2014, AutoCAD, Enovia V5