beginner SCADA 1

[thryll]

I have been blessed with my newest project to design a system. There are several controls in my new process all having rs-232 connections approximately 9 of them.Mainly temperature flow and pressure. I am looking for a low cost, reliable, easily operational SCADA system (I am guessing) for data aquisition and control. Any help on where to start would be appreciated. Books, websites, or your experiance etc
Thanks

 

[thryll]

I may be a beginner but I would like the chance to prove myself. I am familiar with multiplexing technologies just in a difference sense, but my experience has not led me down this avenue before and I would like to expand my horizons. I see many professionals who have a vast amount of experience in this field in this forum, I am sure they all started somewhere.

 

[lesliemcg]

i think you are right thryll. everyone starts somewhere.
i would recommend contacting the manufactures of the controls you are thinking of using. you will probally find they also offer a system which you could put together yourself (with tech support)
it worked for me, my first scada, using plc's i kept them all the same and also used the same manufacturer for a system to set up my self. using tech support and manuals i got there
good luck

 

[xnuke]

We did start somewhere - with training in the correct field. I didn't say you can't cross-train into the electrical field and develop your skills in SCADA, I just advised that you receive the appropriate help to learn. Manufacturer's applications engineers can help - they are interested in developing a customer base - but most of them are not going to design a complete system for you without a nice fat check coming to their company for design services as well as parts. If you find someone who will do it for free, please post their name and company. I'm always on the lookout for free labor that I can employ to do my work for me.

xnuke

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[lesliemcg]

i think we got off in the wrong foot xnuke
free labor would always be welcome but the main point i am making is that some companies do offer great tech support to get you started and up and running(what better way is there to sell a product)

with the support and some homework you can set up a simple system which sounds like thryll is aimimg for

lelsiemcg

 

[Ka3tr0]

At my workplace we're using CitectSCADA.

http://www.citect.com

Plenty of case study and u can download the 20 days trial version for free. Also got fake I/O server where u can actually simulate the whole process without even connection to the machines. Other SCADA software would be Wonderware.

Good Luck

Ka3tr0

Get your own E-Gold ACC today

http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=991182

 

[plcsavvy]

I think you need to define for us the process or type of machine. Also the signal types. 0-20 mA, 4-20mA, 0-5 vdc, 0-10VDC and so on. Also what type of information if any is to be displayed or logged. What if any control comes from the front end of the machine? By front end I mean a SCADA package such as wonder ware. You mentioned that you want a "low cost, reliable, easily operational scada system (Iam guessing) for data acquisition and control". There is no such thing as a low cost scada system, unless you are planning to interface one or more PLCs with A computer running Visual Basic. Although the cost will be less for the software needed to provide a HMI (human machine interface) the learning curve is steep as you will have to write a ton of code that is usually provided for in a scada package such as wonder ware. The system's reliability will depend greatly on the design of the hardware interface and the programmer's ability to tie all of these sub systems together in a manner that is seemless to the operator of the machine. When you say easily operational, do you mean with respect to you, the programmer, or the operator of the machine? If you desire that the system is easily operational to the operator, then the ball is completely in your hands. There are literally 100s of ways in which to construct a human machine interface. One more thing, you better know a lot about scaling analog values in order to be successful.

best regards, PLCSAVVY

 

[marshg]

Also, don't hesitate to call up the manufacturers of the sensors and systems to ask them questions. Have them babysit you through a problem if necessary. I've had to call up for the same and i've seen experienced electrical engineers do the same. Hard work and persistance pays off! Good Luck!

 

[skills]

I would look at NI's LOOKOUT 4.5 . It's got all the stuff
I have ever needed plus it's fast, highly connectable, very scalable, good entry cost, and my first job with it took 5 hours from installation to deployment which is hard to match with the others I've dealt with. You can get a LITE style version at

http://www.automationdirect.com

under software products.

 

[typhonic]

I suggest you try Infilink which you can download and try for free from their website:

http://www.kep.com.

If all your controllers use the same communications protocol, then you will only need one communications driver (OPC driver) which you also download and try for free. You may need to install 9 serial ports on your PC to get all the controllers talking.

 

[thescadaman]

There are a lot of PLC vendors out there that also offer software for processing the data that you collect. You don't even need to go to a high dollar vendor. Look at a site like

http://www.automationdirect.com

for ideas. Most PLC's do have RS232 input or can accept cards that read RS232. Need to verify the comm protocol of your device - most PLC vendors offer comm protocols at a price. Hopefully yours is fairly standard and all are the same.

Hope this helps a little.

 

[advidana]

Find a new job. What a waste to have a Chemical engineer do electrical.

Chemical engineers are the highest paid in the profession. If you would like to do electrical as a hobbie that would be ok.

Anyway just contact your local scada dealer he will design the system for you but beware it may come out bad or will not work.

The electrical business is just like the chemical business. You need mentoring.

 

[jsummerfield]

Of course you can cross-train. XNUKE sounds a bit arrogant. Most advanced process control programmers are chemical not electrical.

EIA/TIA-232 interfaces require some protocol. Modicon published Modbus in about 1980 as an open protocol. Most PLC and DCS suppliers have EIA 232 interfaces but there are some catches in the interface. IMHO, EIA 232 interfaces are becoming obsolete as Ethernet is much easier. Among the EIA 232 interfaces programming for the bits can run from 0-15, 1-16, 16-1, 15-0, etc. You will spend some money on the interface and some time implementing the first interface. Each interface may be different unless the equipment is very similar.

Your SCADA application may be much easier using 4-20 mA than EIA 232 unless there is a lot of data to be collected in each interface. Also, Fieldbus could make 4-20 mA obsolete over this decade.

Good luck.

John Summerfield, PE
Control Systems
Houston

 

[RBE]

Hi

I was going to ask if anyone new of any web site that would give me some info on field bus applications
but with the responce that thryll got from xnuke I don,t think Ill bother.
what is this the closed shop union ?

 

[jhadk]

Use ABB SCADA portal version 2 that communicate with every PLC and remote units. You need only a simple PIII PC with Visual basic.

 

[thryll]

Just FYI My background is in electronic engineering and technology. I worked in R&D @ a major fiber optic core routing company (2yrs). Since the telecom layoffs I have switched over to an R&D chemical laboratory (gotta pay the bills).

 

[advidana]

oh that's different, never mine

 

[RBE]

Thanks jhadk verry helpfull

 

[datniet]

I have the same 'problem' and should make a scada-system for a brewery with a combination of Siemens S5&7, and some Allen-Bradley SLC500. Should be all togheter about 8000 I/O. The software is RsView from Rockwell, and it looks not bad to me. (In fact, I have no choice...)))
I'm a well experencied plc-programmer but I know really nothing about all that ethernet-stuff. I guess I will have something to learn (and try out) the next years.
So, thryll, you're not alone...
DD (Belgium)

 

[typhonic]

I hope you, thryll and datniet, will post updates as your projects progress. I have been through similar projects and I have confidence in you. Let us know what successes you have and what obstacles you encounter.