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Being visible? 6
- Thread starter shahyar
- Start date
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3
- #2
I assume that you were no longer needed at your present job and did not quit. Perhaps you should say how you are visible to your fellow workers and your manager so we have some idea how you interact with others. Do you ever have casual conversation with coworkers during lunch, before/after work, or briefly during the workday? I cannot say what you need to do to be visible but I can say what I do.
I have found that anytime it looks like I have my workload is well defined and under control, it is time to put some feelers out for additional work. To do this, I have to be visible. I take a walk around the engineering department and let folks know that I have finally caught up on my work and I start dialog regarding ongoing and upcoming work and where I might fit in. If I do not find anything that I like or anyone that wants me, I will start to call some friends that are regular clients and ask them if they have anything coming down the pike. Consequently, I am either busy or visible. I believe that you have to sell yourself to your coworkers as someone that gets things done without bragging. Once they see this, you will be of value to them. You cannot do this if you are not visible.
I have found that anytime it looks like I have my workload is well defined and under control, it is time to put some feelers out for additional work. To do this, I have to be visible. I take a walk around the engineering department and let folks know that I have finally caught up on my work and I start dialog regarding ongoing and upcoming work and where I might fit in. If I do not find anything that I like or anyone that wants me, I will start to call some friends that are regular clients and ask them if they have anything coming down the pike. Consequently, I am either busy or visible. I believe that you have to sell yourself to your coworkers as someone that gets things done without bragging. Once they see this, you will be of value to them. You cannot do this if you are not visible.
I can't say that I know what "being more visible" means. That sounds a little hokie to me. You are on their payroll, so it's not like they forgot you were there.
I do something similar to Zapster - although I'm not sure that qualifies as being "visible".
We have a weekly scheduling meeting to make sure no one has too many hours scheduled and to also identify people who have time available in case something unexpected comes up. When I first started I would go through my tasks (that were alotted 40 - 45 hours) in about 30 hours. I would always go ask the project engineers if they had any other work for me. Like I said, I don't think that qualifies as being "visible", but that was the only effort I made (make). I don't make conversation over lunch. I don't chat about non-work stuff during the day. I don't stay late and talk to anyone. I do make it a point to talk to people about any technical questions I have (but that is not an attempt to be visible, that is just trying to be the best engineer/fastest learner I can be). Now that I spend more time doing my own projects I don't need to ask others if they have more work, I just spend the extra time on my own project(s) so I am even less "visible" than before. Both of reviews have been glowing.
It is possible that your employer just had additional expectations for you above and beyond being a good engineer. Take it with a grain of salt and move on to better things!
Not sure if any of this is helpful to you, but this has been my experience.
I do something similar to Zapster - although I'm not sure that qualifies as being "visible".
We have a weekly scheduling meeting to make sure no one has too many hours scheduled and to also identify people who have time available in case something unexpected comes up. When I first started I would go through my tasks (that were alotted 40 - 45 hours) in about 30 hours. I would always go ask the project engineers if they had any other work for me. Like I said, I don't think that qualifies as being "visible", but that was the only effort I made (make). I don't make conversation over lunch. I don't chat about non-work stuff during the day. I don't stay late and talk to anyone. I do make it a point to talk to people about any technical questions I have (but that is not an attempt to be visible, that is just trying to be the best engineer/fastest learner I can be). Now that I spend more time doing my own projects I don't need to ask others if they have more work, I just spend the extra time on my own project(s) so I am even less "visible" than before. Both of reviews have been glowing.
It is possible that your employer just had additional expectations for you above and beyond being a good engineer. Take it with a grain of salt and move on to better things!
Not sure if any of this is helpful to you, but this has been my experience.
"That sounds a little hokie to me. You are on their payroll, so it's not like they forgot you were there."
Not true.. Managers forget people are there all the time...
Managers get into a rut, and as a result the only people they know they have working for them are the trouble makers, and the stars...
Trouble makers are visible for the wrong reasons, and in fact a manager might actually feel physically ill when he sees one of his problem children.
Stars are visible because they go out of their way to make sure the manager knows what they are doing, how they have helped the manager succeed, and that the manager knows them and likes them.
Your quality of work is irrelevant if management does not know about it, and management won't go looking on their own, you have to tell them. Other wise you are just fodder for layoffs.
So if I had to interpret the comment, I woulds say that he is telling you that you did good work, but you did not make sure everyone knew about it, and as a result, no one knew about it.
Many here will call this approach to career management "sucking up" "a$$ kissing" "brown nosing" etc, but that does not mean that it doesn't work.
If you are doing good stuff tell someone. If you are waiting around to be recognized, forget it, it won't happen.
"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.
Not true.. Managers forget people are there all the time...
Managers get into a rut, and as a result the only people they know they have working for them are the trouble makers, and the stars...
Trouble makers are visible for the wrong reasons, and in fact a manager might actually feel physically ill when he sees one of his problem children.
Stars are visible because they go out of their way to make sure the manager knows what they are doing, how they have helped the manager succeed, and that the manager knows them and likes them.
Your quality of work is irrelevant if management does not know about it, and management won't go looking on their own, you have to tell them. Other wise you are just fodder for layoffs.
So if I had to interpret the comment, I woulds say that he is telling you that you did good work, but you did not make sure everyone knew about it, and as a result, no one knew about it.
Many here will call this approach to career management "sucking up" "a$$ kissing" "brown nosing" etc, but that does not mean that it doesn't work.
If you are doing good stuff tell someone. If you are waiting around to be recognized, forget it, it won't happen.
"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.
Seems to me that the "Process department manager" is telling you that had your accomplishments would have otherwise prevented your departure, had they been better advertised.
Not that you should be crowing your accomplishments all over the place, but the point of the message is that you need to be more than a wallflower. Many times, engineers will do great things, and then let someone else present the results and get the implied credit. When results of your work are to be presented, step up and ask to present them. They're yours and you know them better than anyone else.
This serves several purposes. The first is to get the credit you deserve by making it clear who did the work. The second is to raise awareness within the company of your overall abilities. You might get more assignments or better ones. The third is that you'll improve your communications skills.
Your ability to do presentations will further your visibility in the company, and if you're reasonably good at it, you'll be the go-to guy to do presentations for other things as well. If you look around, you'll find that only certain engineers are asked to do presentations to customers or upper management. It's not necessarily that they're better engineers; they may simply be better presentors.
So, don't be a wallflower...
TTFN
FAQ731-376
Not that you should be crowing your accomplishments all over the place, but the point of the message is that you need to be more than a wallflower. Many times, engineers will do great things, and then let someone else present the results and get the implied credit. When results of your work are to be presented, step up and ask to present them. They're yours and you know them better than anyone else.
This serves several purposes. The first is to get the credit you deserve by making it clear who did the work. The second is to raise awareness within the company of your overall abilities. You might get more assignments or better ones. The third is that you'll improve your communications skills.
Your ability to do presentations will further your visibility in the company, and if you're reasonably good at it, you'll be the go-to guy to do presentations for other things as well. If you look around, you'll find that only certain engineers are asked to do presentations to customers or upper management. It's not necessarily that they're better engineers; they may simply be better presentors.
So, don't be a wallflower...
TTFN
FAQ731-376
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1
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Most people like the lame touchy-feely "let me be a part of this" mindset. They don't actually want to help, but they want to feel they are helping. This generally goes against the way most engineers work once they get their teeth into a problem.
Still, it's one more beast to feed in the zoo of human nature.
Still, it's one more beast to feed in the zoo of human nature.
msquared48
Structural
Not knowing what position you held and what responsibilities that entailed, makes it difficult to answer your question precisely...
I can only assume that your superior means that he did not "know" you well as either an employee, an individual, or both. Perhaps he saw only that you are shy and that it is hard for you to interact with other people and make new friends. Perhaps not. Peruse the comment and consider for yourself whether or not it has merit. That's your choice.
The manager may also be passing the buck to some extent here. It is the responsibility of ALL management to get to know their employees, for how can they best utilize their talents and respond to their needs if they do not know them?
However, it is also your responsibility to be a part of the company's "team" so to speak, and to interact with it. It's a two way street here.
If your peers assigned a nickname to you, that's a start of the process. Just think about it
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
I can only assume that your superior means that he did not "know" you well as either an employee, an individual, or both. Perhaps he saw only that you are shy and that it is hard for you to interact with other people and make new friends. Perhaps not. Peruse the comment and consider for yourself whether or not it has merit. That's your choice.
The manager may also be passing the buck to some extent here. It is the responsibility of ALL management to get to know their employees, for how can they best utilize their talents and respond to their needs if they do not know them?
However, it is also your responsibility to be a part of the company's "team" so to speak, and to interact with it. It's a two way street here.
If your peers assigned a nickname to you, that's a start of the process. Just think about it
Mike McCann
McCann Engineering
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1
- #8
He means: the guys who take the hire and fire decisions need to know you as a name and aface, not just someone who turns up everyday and collects a salary.
When redundancy time comes around what characteristics do you think mark out the victims from the survivors?
Remember, while engineers make logical rational decisions, most other people (the hire and fire guys, HR. etc) make emotional decisions driven by the ancient fight or flight reflexes. So don't expect to survive simply because you do an honest days work and do it well.
The easiest people to axe are first and foremost those they don't really know and don't have a way to value.... farmers never make pets of the food animals. Next come those who earn the most (despite this probably being because they contribute the most, though this isn't always the case).
It is never enough to just do your job but to be seen to be doing it.
If you receive your jobs from your boss, keep him informed of progress, even a casual comment when passing or a simple paragraph at regular intervals. It helps him keep abs on what you are doing and he begins to know you as a person and a non-threatening one at that. Plus, it is sometimes good to ask for instructions and decisions from him but keep it simple. He will feel comfortably involved. But if all he sees i that you work there and no one actively complains about your work, he may never know what sort of impact it would have to put you on the wrong side of the hire and fire list until it is too late.
By the way, Structural IET, I personally would hesitate about too often declaring my work done and asking for more and you may well be absolutely right.
I, however, would worry that the impression it would create is of never having enough to do and thus being seen as superfluous.... and an easy lay-off. This has never been something I have had to worry about since the status quo has always been too much work required from too few people (what really endears you to management is that when they hire and fire they can get you doing the key parts of two or three peoples jobs for the salary of one) and thus I can't say that it is in fact a bad idea.
JMW
When redundancy time comes around what characteristics do you think mark out the victims from the survivors?
Remember, while engineers make logical rational decisions, most other people (the hire and fire guys, HR. etc) make emotional decisions driven by the ancient fight or flight reflexes. So don't expect to survive simply because you do an honest days work and do it well.
The easiest people to axe are first and foremost those they don't really know and don't have a way to value.... farmers never make pets of the food animals. Next come those who earn the most (despite this probably being because they contribute the most, though this isn't always the case).
It is never enough to just do your job but to be seen to be doing it.
If you receive your jobs from your boss, keep him informed of progress, even a casual comment when passing or a simple paragraph at regular intervals. It helps him keep abs on what you are doing and he begins to know you as a person and a non-threatening one at that. Plus, it is sometimes good to ask for instructions and decisions from him but keep it simple. He will feel comfortably involved. But if all he sees i that you work there and no one actively complains about your work, he may never know what sort of impact it would have to put you on the wrong side of the hire and fire list until it is too late.
By the way, Structural IET, I personally would hesitate about too often declaring my work done and asking for more and you may well be absolutely right.
I, however, would worry that the impression it would create is of never having enough to do and thus being seen as superfluous.... and an easy lay-off. This has never been something I have had to worry about since the status quo has always been too much work required from too few people (what really endears you to management is that when they hire and fire they can get you doing the key parts of two or three peoples jobs for the salary of one) and thus I can't say that it is in fact a bad idea.
JMW
livingston
Mechanical
I was at a company once that had two major lay-offs within 6 months. This 'visibility' idea saved my job. My visibility in part was being on a committee with one of the VPs responsible for detailing the matrix of who was released and when. He knew my name. That is the beginning and end of it I think. The handful of people in that lay off meeting need to know your name and see something of value in you.
In most corporate settings, if you just get the work done well and quietly, management will either forget you exist, or else assume that your work was easy or workload too light.
Do not hide your light under a bushel, as they say. I would take the 'more visible' comment to mean that you need to make sure management knows what you have done. Some people overdo this, but you do have to do it to some extent. If you don't toot your own horn, nobody else is going to do it for you.
Do not hide your light under a bushel, as they say. I would take the 'more visible' comment to mean that you need to make sure management knows what you have done. Some people overdo this, but you do have to do it to some extent. If you don't toot your own horn, nobody else is going to do it for you.
It seems like what he is saying may not even be work related, just throwing in the small talk with others/boss...like "I need to grab a cup of coffee to give me a boost for final details of the X job, i should have it finished today or tomorrow."
Thats a little bit of a cheesy line but something to that extent makes people know, A) your finishing a job, B) your not "that guy" that must live in a closet.
My boss makes it a bi-daily hobbit to talk with everyone during the unofficially designated "break" times, we dont get real breaks per say but almost everyone gets a cup of coffee and its acceptable to talk for a little about non work related stuff for a little.
I work with hard core sports people so I try to catch the stats for big games just to I can talk a little to “be visible” and not “the engineer, what’s his name again?”
I guess its partly a two way street, a good boss knows it I will (hopefully) increase cohesion and moral => productivity. You do it to get to know your co-workers and make sure your boss(es) know you exist.
Thats a little bit of a cheesy line but something to that extent makes people know, A) your finishing a job, B) your not "that guy" that must live in a closet.
My boss makes it a bi-daily hobbit to talk with everyone during the unofficially designated "break" times, we dont get real breaks per say but almost everyone gets a cup of coffee and its acceptable to talk for a little about non work related stuff for a little.
I work with hard core sports people so I try to catch the stats for big games just to I can talk a little to “be visible” and not “the engineer, what’s his name again?”
I guess its partly a two way street, a good boss knows it I will (hopefully) increase cohesion and moral => productivity. You do it to get to know your co-workers and make sure your boss(es) know you exist.
CorBlimeyLimey
Mechanical
shahyar,
You didn't reveal whether you were laid-off, fired, or quit for a new job.
I'm assuming the Process Manager was not your boss or supervisor, but went out of his way to give you advice. If so, he may have recognised that you have potential and felt that you were treated unfairly.
For whatever reason it was, the first thing you should do is contact the Process Manager and ask him to suggest how he thinks you should be more visible.
![[cheers]](/data/assets/smilies/cheers.gif "[cheers] [cheers]")
You didn't reveal whether you were laid-off, fired, or quit for a new job.
I'm assuming the Process Manager was not your boss or supervisor, but went out of his way to give you advice. If so, he may have recognised that you have potential and felt that you were treated unfairly.
For whatever reason it was, the first thing you should do is contact the Process Manager and ask him to suggest how he thinks you should be more visible.
PeterStock
Mechanical
I was on a contract job a number of years ago and during the assignment I moved to 2nd shift. I soon had no work and was laid off earlier than I would have had I been around to be visible.
Peter Stockhausen
Pollak Switching Products
Peter Stockhausen
Pollak Switching Products
vigildesign
Mechanical
I recently read and saved an article related to this discussion. I have it on my desktop as a reminder.
As I'm sure others have said, "visibility" means a lot to different people. At a bare minimum it means not being "that guy in Engineering" and making sure that you are "PersonWithaName in Engineering". Just having a name to your higher ups is a powerful thing, since you've at least done enough personally or professionally to stop being employee number 9824582 and become a real human.
The second part is harder. The hatchetman's personal perception is what I think the second half of being visible is. If the hatchetman values quick and technically correct completion of tasks over spending more time to be 100% correct in every way (i.e. grammar, layout, etc.) and you get 3 tasks done in the same time the guy next to you gets 4 done and you're both correct on 100% of technical issues, where does that leave you? That's right, homeless and hungry.
Conversely, if the hatchetman prefers 100% perfect work in all things over volume of work completed, and you finish your 3 100% correct tasks to the neighbor's 4 tasks which are only perfect in technical issues, then he's the one who's homeless and hungry. You and the guy next to you haven't changed; the hatchetman is the variable.
Point being that the only thing I can think of that is unchangeable when trying to get ahead is to never compromise on the technical excellence of your work. Outside of that, every position in every company has a certain way to do things that will get you "good" visibility aside from your technical competence. It's the ability to be able figure out HOW to work to make your employer happiest that will make you a superstar.
The second part is harder. The hatchetman's personal perception is what I think the second half of being visible is. If the hatchetman values quick and technically correct completion of tasks over spending more time to be 100% correct in every way (i.e. grammar, layout, etc.) and you get 3 tasks done in the same time the guy next to you gets 4 done and you're both correct on 100% of technical issues, where does that leave you? That's right, homeless and hungry.
Conversely, if the hatchetman prefers 100% perfect work in all things over volume of work completed, and you finish your 3 100% correct tasks to the neighbor's 4 tasks which are only perfect in technical issues, then he's the one who's homeless and hungry. You and the guy next to you haven't changed; the hatchetman is the variable.
Point being that the only thing I can think of that is unchangeable when trying to get ahead is to never compromise on the technical excellence of your work. Outside of that, every position in every company has a certain way to do things that will get you "good" visibility aside from your technical competence. It's the ability to be able figure out HOW to work to make your employer happiest that will make you a superstar.
realistically, nobody is 100% perfect or always the fastest. It all comes down to perception - your bosses perception. Your boss should know who you are, know something about you and have a high level of confidence in you. For this to happen, you will have to become visible to him. You should be able to comfortably say hello in the hallway, carry a conversation with him in the elevator, frequent his office to ask his advice and be able to frankly ask him if you are doing a good job. The hatchetman will get the report from your boss regarding who to layoff.
You need to blow your own horn, basically.
I and quite likely most others here probably find it quite distastful, verging on brown nosing, and would like to think that just doing a good job is enough but the reality is that unless you're lucky enough to have a really good boss(s) it's not always enough.
The difficult part is making sure people know what you contribute and making sure people know you exist without becoming an A$$ kisser.
Exactly how to do it will vary by situation/individual but some of the ideas above aren't bad.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
I and quite likely most others here probably find it quite distastful, verging on brown nosing, and would like to think that just doing a good job is enough but the reality is that unless you're lucky enough to have a really good boss(s) it's not always enough.
The difficult part is making sure people know what you contribute and making sure people know you exist without becoming an A$$ kisser.
Exactly how to do it will vary by situation/individual but some of the ideas above aren't bad.
KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
It isn't necessary to go about brown nosing, it is simply a bit of casual dialogue about something you are both involved with, the project you have been assigned.
Some engineers, given a project expected to take about 9 months, disappear into their cubicles and no more is heard from them till the deadline approaches. This is not a good idea. Some bosses, admittedly, do not request organised reporting, they have too many other things to do and they may not actually be as organised as they should be nor as good as they should be.
So either use the formal reporting system or, if it doesn't exist, of your own initiative, present and informal report verbally when appropriate and certainly, as you approach each milestone and then by brief email (don't go copying emails all round the works, that's a brown nose trick or is a sign of someone documenting all in the prospect of an impeding S*** hitting the fan event.
Impending deadlines are bad news if the boss has no idea if you are going to spring a surprise disaster on him or not but if you take an initiative he will feel comfortable and will recognise you.
In other words use the existing communications to be a bit more open and opportunities for casual reporting or simple quests for instructions.
Brown nosing is a far more insidious activity in no way to be confused with simple dialogues especially if you allow your actions to speak for you rather than seeking praise and announcing how good you are.... you are shining a light not blowing a trumpet.
JMW
Some engineers, given a project expected to take about 9 months, disappear into their cubicles and no more is heard from them till the deadline approaches. This is not a good idea. Some bosses, admittedly, do not request organised reporting, they have too many other things to do and they may not actually be as organised as they should be nor as good as they should be.
So either use the formal reporting system or, if it doesn't exist, of your own initiative, present and informal report verbally when appropriate and certainly, as you approach each milestone and then by brief email (don't go copying emails all round the works, that's a brown nose trick or is a sign of someone documenting all in the prospect of an impeding S*** hitting the fan event.
Impending deadlines are bad news if the boss has no idea if you are going to spring a surprise disaster on him or not but if you take an initiative he will feel comfortable and will recognise you.
In other words use the existing communications to be a bit more open and opportunities for casual reporting or simple quests for instructions.
Brown nosing is a far more insidious activity in no way to be confused with simple dialogues especially if you allow your actions to speak for you rather than seeking praise and announcing how good you are.... you are shining a light not blowing a trumpet.
JMW
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