Best pump(s) to bring water uphill (700 meters altitude)? 3

[Artisi]

To use a ram pump you need a flowing water supply, they cannot be used on a static storage tank.

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

 

[itsmoked]

Agreed Artisi but he can pump to the first level then as he irrigates from that level down use that flow to pump to the next stage up. Of course, it is a diminishing return situation.

I can see it now 12 rams in the river feeding a tank, feeding 8 rams, feeding a tank, feeding 5 rams, etc, etc. Be very interesting to hear 12 rams running next to each other in the creek!

It will be known as the The Valley of the pah-tink ahs



Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[LittleInch]

Sheccid,,This might seem obvious, but there's no such thing as free energy or perpetual motion.

Many of the Ram pumps seen so far need a few metres of fall to work. Hence for your creek you probably will need to build a small dam and then several metres of large diameter pipe so you don't lose too much in the flow down to your pump. Then for every multiple of your initial fall (say 5m), you need to flow that flow into the pump. So for a 25m lift (in actuality only 20m lift since you're already 5 down on your start point, you need 5m3 of water for every 1m3 being lifted. This ignores efficiency which is typically 60-80%, therefore even more water is needed. - I may be a little out on the numbers, but the principle is there - see

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_ram

under efficnency

Hence to get any water to the top of the hill or indeed anywhere in between, you will end up needing a HUGE amount of flowing water at your start point which I don't think you have requiring quite large pipes.

If you really want to do this "fuel less", simply build a dam and a small hydro plant and use electricity. There are many highly efficient small water turbines designed for remote communities.

When you do the maths, this idea looks great for pumping water a few meters for a small supply, but not for what you're trying to do I'm afraid. Having said that, I think using hydropower of some sort is a much better long term idea than using diesel or natural gas

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[btrueblood]

I'm with LI on this. Consider a few windmills at the top of that ridge as well.

 

[MGXFP]

This appears to need to be done in pumping stages. With 1650' of elevation change the working pressure at the bottom of the system is over 700 psi. Not sure what pipe you're planning on using that can withstand such pressures not to mention the pump itself.

It seems like elevation head would be the limiting factor governed by the pipe working pressure and the pump pressure rating.

You might need 3-4 stages to keep pressures under 200 psi which I believe PVC is listed for.

 

[PersonalProfile]

I have not followed this in detail, hence apologies if this: has already been covered, or is not practical etc; though perhaps consider "discrete" transport [i.e. used truck with a: tank, and pump, or a used water truck etc].
Perhaps this method could eliminate the requirement for the well [as you can use the tank in lieu].

Regards,
Lyle

 

[MartinLe]

If I were to build such a system, it would look like this:
Ponds or large barrels every 60-70 m elevation*, each pond feeds on field and houses the pump for the next one. level switches to turn the relevant feeding pump on or off, so no tank is overfilled and no pump runs dry. Lowest sized the highest daily water amount can be pumped in a few hours. Hook pumps to PV (possibly water power for lower pumps), individually if possible. You could get away with laying only signal cables between the pumps, no power cables.

The idea is that you build one or two ponds with pumps, see how it works and use that experience to build the next one better. Also you can spread out the cost more evenly, start small and grow.
You want to build a large sytem and don't seem to bring all the relevant experience to the table, you need to allow for mistakes in what ever design you come up with.

* Guesstimate: PN10 piping is reasonably common, PN16 PVC is far more expensive. PN10 is 10 bar, roughly 100m head. subtract a bit for dynamic head. See with your supplier what price jumps you have with size and pressure.

 

[Artisi]

Last offer, no refunds, no discount etc - investigate small triplex (piston pump) located at the water source - if it needs to run 24/7 to pump into a holding tank at the top, so be it.
How to get power down there is your problem whatever pump system you use.
See

http://www.aussiepumps.com.au/high-pressure-pumps/high_pressure_pumps.html

-- posted just to show you what is available.
You will probably need sch. 80 or 160 steel pipe initially for the high pressure but you will be able to reduce pipe pressure rating at higher levels as the head reduces.

If you want a good reliable job, forget all the airy fairy schemes of pump / tank stages up the mountain etc and bite the bullet and sort out a one pump installation.

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

 

[chief]

Have a look at this Hydra-ram, using gravity water power to lift your water, no other power needed.

http://www.allspeeds.co.uk/hydraulic-ram-pump/

Offshore Engineering&Design

 

[LittleInch]

Maybe no power but it needs lots and lots and lots of water to get any to the top of the hill....

Plus the actual total gain in lift is less than might be seen as first you need a big fall to get any significant lift.

Nice idea for lifting water a few metres, but not 350m me thinks.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[stanier]

Have you considered the transient pressures on pump trip? You selection of pipe/hose may be compromised by higher than you think transient pressures.

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