Best way to weld/connect horizontal and vertical HSS-profiles 1

[evenjl]

Hello all!

Attached is a simple sketch of a steel frame. As I have no experience with welding, I was hoping I could get some advice from you guys.

My question is; Can horizontal HSS profiles be welded directly onto the vertical profiles or do you need steel plates of some sorts? All the beams have the same cross sectional dimensions


Cheers

 

[dik]

Can your horizontal members be 3x3? then simple fillet weld all around.

Dik

 

[DekDee]

What you are showing is a perfectly normal configuration.
You will have fillets top & bottom and flare bevel on the sides.
It is your call as the designer as to whether any or all of these welds need to be full penetration based on the load that these frames will come under,
Cheers,
Shane

 

[MJCronin]

I agree with DekDee ...

Lots of good information here:

https://steeltubeinstitute.org/

It would be a good idea for you to become familiar with standard welding symbols...

https://www.millerwelds.com/resources/article-library/deciphering-weld-symbols

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

 

[Tmoose]

"I have no experience with welding."

Will you be welding this yourself ?

 

[Mjkkb2]

that would depend what kind of joint you're looking to end up with. Are you assuming fully rigid/fixed configuration?

I would agree that narrowing the horiz members to fit within the 'flat' portion of the vert members and using an all around fillet would be the most economical approach.

 

[evenjl]

Thanks for the replies. Much appreciated!

I'm responsible for the design, i.e. I'm not the welder.
My initial solution can be seen in the attached image. But smaller horizontal members might be a better and easier solution. Or I could drop the L-profiles and replace them with simple fillet welds.

 

[Tmoose]

Do you have loads to work with ?

AWS D1.1 has a section devoted to tubular structural connections, and a lot of other tasty info too

​

Part D-Specific Requirements for Tubular Connections ................................................................................ 20

​

2.35 General ......................................................................................................................

​

2.35.1 Eccentricity .

​

2.36 Allowable Stresses

​

2.36.1 Base-Metal Stresses

​

2.36.2 Circular Section Limitations

​

2.36.3 Weld Stresses

For simple bending of Tee joints the weld at the midspans of each joint don't do much but make the parent material bend and flex and crack. The corners take most of the loading.

 

[evenjl]

Cheers. I live in Europe, so I guess the EN ISO Series about welding should give me some info.

Load: Axial force (approx 200kN) + Moment due to load eccentricity. (Have a look at my sketch. Apologies for the crappy drawings. Not easy to draw on a smartphone)

 

[SwinnyGG]

Wait...

Your load is 200kN + an additional unknown moment load, and:

I have no experience with welding,

?

You need to engage an engineer experienced in designing structures before you do ANYTHING else.

200kN is a non-trivial load. And the sections you appear to be designing with are not very large.

Structures that fail under loads on that scale very frequently result in injuries or deaths.

 

[evenjl]

Wait...
Your load is 200kN, and:
Quote (evenjl)
I have no experience with welding,
?
You need to engage an engineer experienced in designing structures before you do ANYTHING else.
200kN is a non-trivial load. And the sections you appear to be designing with are not very large.
Structures that fail under loads on that scale very frequently result in injuries or deaths.

I was interested in learning more about how you could join the members together. I have never tried to weld my self, but I have experience with design of connections with fillet welds. I work as a structural engineer and all my work in this project will be controlled by a 3rd party.

 

Where to place fillets and how large is not the same thing as structural design. For that you need a specialist.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."