big name or small graduate school. 2

[SLTG]

I just want to get some feedback from you guys out there on determining graduate school program. Obviously you pick the graduate school which has the program that fit to your best interest. Due to my only 3.05 GPA, I don't have manychoices on the big school, despite the fact that I have work experience and great letter of recommendation. It seems like if you don't got 3.60 and above they are not interested with you anymore. So I went to visit the small university graduate program on my vacation trip, the professor seems enthusiatist, the research programs fit my background and interest, the facilities are great for the stuff I want to do. Everything looks great except that the master program is still new. The university is a branch campus from the main campus. The university is a state university and I feel good about this school, but a little nervous about the fact that the master degree program is still new. Should I go to well established school?.

Any suggestion?

Thanks
SLTG

 

[COKA]

Did you do your bachelor's with a "well established school"? Down the line it will not matter which school you went to but how well you do during your interviews. However, some people may argue that a "well established school" will bring you to the interview. Your GPA is good enough, I would go with what you are interested in doing. If a "well established school" doesn't want you because of your GPA, well they are losing a potentially very good student.

By the way, Einstein was kicked out of school because he was too smart. And then he could not get in to the university he wanted because he had not finished school.

Coka

 

[zdas04]

I've seen huge "party school" universities with mediocre undergrad programs and excellent graduate programs. The schools are trying to attract "name" researchers who often are lousy teachers of the basics and sometimes very good teachers of advanced topics and mentors.

I'm looking at schools for my PhD and am finding that the party schools have some of the best programs and the name schools (spelled "Private and expensive") are no better.

I can't remember a single person ever asking where I got my masters (the Denver campus of the University of Colorado), but the fact do I have it comes up often.

David

 

[SLTG]

Well, I consider the school that I graduated from is a good undergraduate school. They don't have a good graduate program, but the undergraduate program is pretty solid. Well, I will review again about my school of choices and focus on the one that matches most with my background and interest. Maybe I'll have to visit those big names schools and actually get a feel of it.

Thanks for the suggestion.
SLTG

 

[RDK]

Are you looking for an education or glitzy packaging?

All going to a name school does for you is gets you noticed for your first couple of interviews. After that you are on your own and it’s your knowledge, experience and capabilities that define you, not the name on a parchment that no one reads.

If the program is what you want, gives you access to a professor that you want to work with and has the facilities you need to follow your ideas then go for it and forget about the name schools.



Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[SLTG]

You guys have given me many great posts and helped me to have a clear picture of what I want to do. I'm going to visit the school in the next of couple weeks and it should give me some a better idea.

Thanks
sltg

 

[DRC1]

I would be hestitant about a new graduate program at a small university. I found Grad school very different from undergrad. I also worked a few years in between. At grad school the quality of the education was the quality of the course work, Not much else really mattered. Sure there were very good professors and guests, but the main focus of the program was the course work. At Grad School it wasassumed if you got in you would get out. The point was to make the most of your time there. I worked in the geotech lab and attended class with a mix of master & PhD students. We helped each other with research. We were expected to read extensively outside the required class material. We had many very good guest lectures present to our group with lots of interaction. We worked on small projects here and there for various professors. We went to class. We audited classes and we were teaching assistants for undergrad. We also did our course work, but it was not what my masters was about for me.
Go to the best school you can afford- thats why I worked a few years. It will be one of the most important investments you can make.

 

[Haf]

I agree with DRC1. I would be hesitant about a new graduate program at a small university.

I would recommend going to a tier 1 school if at all possible. If that is not possible, at least try to go to a school that grants PhD's.

Tier 1 schools are not necessarily "big name" schools with "glitzy packaging." They are simply well-established graduate programs that have years of experience granting MS and PhD degrees to engineering students. On average, your educational and research opportunities will be greater at a tier 1 school. This is not to say that you can't get a good education from a tier 2 school, but you have to be much more careful (especially when choosing your advisor, assuming you're doing a thesis).

I have interviewed several MS candidates in the last three years. The ones from the tier 1 schools are invariably better candidates than those from the tier 2 schools. This is true even when we solicit the "best" candidates from the tier 2 schools by contacting the engineering department directly.

I interviewed two MS candidates in the last week. One was from a tier 2 school, but was highly recommended by the faculty there. The other was from a tier 1 school, and her resume came in through standard channels. Both were bright and talented, but the one from the tier 1 school had a much more solid thesis topic, and her research was much more impressive. Furthermore, her experience and research at her school did a much better job preparing her for her career in engineering. Guess which one we're going to hire?

I work at a company that hires MS and PhD engineers almost exclusively. We have a list of preferred schools to recruit from. This is not because we prefer "big names" or "glitzy packaging." It is because those preferred schools, on average, produce high caliber students that are well prepared to do good work for our company.

As DRC1 said, go to the best school that you can get into. Most tier 1 schools offer TA's and RA's to the students that they accept, so sometimes cost is not a concern.

Haf

 

[SLTG]

When you do a master thesis on the graduate level, how do you choose you master thesis?. Does it come from a list that your advisor comes up?. I'm applying to 2 different schools. One is a tier 1 school and the other is a tier 2 school. The tier 2 school has more hands-on curriculum than the other, It will prepare you good in the industrial world and it has partnership with many local company in the area. The Tier 1 school has more credibility as far as their establishement getting Master and PhD programs. It has many proffesors that I would like to work with because of thier research interests are superb. This school gears toward research environment, I think. I visited the tier 2 school personnaly and I plan to do the same with the Tier 1. I want to meet with the professor on the tier 1 school and get a feel of who he is. The tier 2 school professors were passionate about their work and the facilites were great but the program is new and they are still developing it. At this point I'm leaning towards the tier 1 school with everything being equal.
sltg

 

[Haf]

SLTG,

Here's a quick overview of how things were done at the school I attended for my MS (a tier 1 school).

At my school, nearly all (>90%) of the graduate students that were accepted were offered an RA (research assistantship) or TA (teaching assistantship). With either an RA or TA you are granted a tuition waiver and a modest stipend (around $20k per year). An RA means you are paid to do your research, and you do not teach. In contrast, a TA means you have to teach in addition to doing your research. As you can imagine, RA's are more competitive and harder to come by.

After being accepted into the graduate school, applicants were invited for a visit that involved meetings with faculty and tours of facilities. Those meeting were with professors that were actively looking for graduate students. This means they had funded projects for students to work on. The top-notch candidates (many of which had fellowships) got their choice of professor (i.e., advisor) and/or project. In many cases, however, a match is not made prior to the student arriving on campus. In those cases, the student would spend his/her first semester finding an advisor and thesis project. This was more common with PhD candidates and I would not recommend this as an MS candidate, especially if you want to graduate in a timely manner.

If you have the luxury of choosing your advisor and/or project, choose wisely. Find a professor that has a proven track record of graduating students in a timely fashion. You have to trust their judgement that they know the difference between an MS and PhD project (keep in mind though, that many MS projects at a tier 1 school would be considered PhD work at a tier 2 school). Look for projects that fit in well with your intests, and try to get a project that has a solid source of funding.

I think you will find that most tier 1 schools have a process similar to the one I described. With tier 2 schools and below, the process is much different, from what I have seen. In many cases, MS candidates at tier 2 schools and below do not even do a thesis project at all.

I hope this begins to answer your questions. Good luck!

Haf

 

[SLTG]

Haf,

It does, and it makes sense. I'm actually planning to do part time work (proffesional work) while doing my master degree program. So, I'm looking at least 3 years to finish it. The thing that I still have question is, how do I end-up with the Master thesis topic. Do I just pick from the list, Do I find it myself, or simple choosen from my advisor. How do I increase my chance to go to tier 1 school in your experience. I need to get it first before I can proof that I can be a very good candidate. I'm a little nervous about the GPA issue.

Thanks for your help

SLTG

 

[Haf]

To be honest, your GPA may be difficult to overcome, but it can be done. Basically, you have to overcome your GPA with the other factors that are used to determine admission. These include GRE scores, recommendations, and your essay. I'll tell you up front, though, that many schools weight undergraduate GPA the highest. There are, however, allowances based on the perceived quality of the school you went to for undergrad. Having good GRE scores (especially on the quantitative and analytical sections) will help (most schools only require the general GRE test, but some also require you to take the subject test). Recommendations are also important. The essay is usually weighted lowest; however, I would advise that you directly address your undergraduate GPA in your essay.

You could also try to contact the ME graduate department head at the school you are interested in attending. Tell him/her your circumstances and inquire about your chances of being accepted. You could also contact professors directly, if you are interested in working for them. If you can convince a specific professor that you would be a good graduate student for them, they can play a big role in whether or not you are accepted into the graduate school.

If you end up going to a tier 2 or 3 school, you probably will not have to worry at all about being accepted (many of these schools accept almost anyone); however, you will likely have to pay your own way.

As far as your thesis topic, do you know what area of ME you want to focus in? If you can narrow that down, say to controls or thermal sciences, etc., then you can target specific professors at each school, as well as specific thesis topics. You have to try to match up your interests with what's available, and you may have to be flexible.

Haf

 

[SLTG]

Haf,

My grade is 3.05/4.00 and I've got rejected right in my face couple times already due to it. For some reason I wasn't interested at school during my sophomore year and I failed couple classes. Some of the school even said that their average admission grade admission is 3.65 and I beg them how can I make it. They said, I'd better safe my money and go to other school. I was pissed but I didn't blame them. This school that I'm applying now isn't even in the top 20 in the field that I want to pursue which is Design and control. Like you said, many factor determining my admission. Do you think it is wise to explain my circumstances in the essay, while they alrady asked me to answer specific questions only. I was going to address this issue on my personal visit to the campus.

Would you be willing to read my personnal statement? Thanks for your valuable inside.

SLTG

 

[Haf]

Many times you are asked to describe any obstacles or burdens you had to overcome in your essay. In that case, mentioning your relatively low GPA and the reasons for it may be appropriate. If that is not the case, and you are asked to address specific topics, I agree that it is not wise. At any rate, I wouldn't mention the fact they you just "weren't interested" during your sophomore year; however, if it was really just a couple of classes that you failed (and I assume had to retake), maybe you could stress that fact. It may make a difference that your 3.05 GPA is mainly due to a couple of courses and not to mediocre performance across the board. Also, were the classes you failed outside of your major (i.e., not ME courses)? If they were, perhaps you can stress that your GPA in your major, i.e., the GPA of all of your ME courses, is much higher.

I would be willing to read your personal statement; however, I am unwilling to give out my email address over the internet. Perhaps you have a website you could post it to and point me towards?

Haf

 

[RDK]

Can you take one semester of undergraduate studies, with a different course load than the first time around, to improve your GPA?

Would they accept you as a ‘pre-master’ student with full acceptance dependant on your initial coursework?

A lot of risk on your part but it may pay off if you work hard enough.


Haf

If you do not want to give out your e-mail address you can always get a free e-mail from yahoo or hotmail and only use it once.




Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[SLTG]

Haf,

I've failed couple thermal system classes. For some reason, thes classes are very difficult for to get motivated to study. My major GPA is right around those number too. I don't have a website to post my letter. I understand your concern. Thanks for the advise.

RDK,

I graduated 4 years ago. Yes it takes lots of risk. I've been working for 4 years now and my desire to go back to school got stronger everyday. I'm just a little nervous about it since I might have to give up this comfortable life with so many unknown ahead of me just to pursue graduate school.

In anyway, my mind is set that I will do whatever it takes to achieve my goal even if I had to retake those classes and not being admitted to a full time graduate student at the first couple semester. I value learning much more than just a good job (gee what was I thinking when I was in sophomore/junior year).

SLTG

 

[DRC1]

I didn't have a perfect GPA undergrad either. I worked with a BS for 2-3 years in the field, saved every dime and applied to a couple of teir1 schools without asking for finacial aid. Myadvisor later told me the reason I got in was a. I had actual work experience and b. I wasn't looking for aid. (seems engineering schools can use paying customers). Plus waiting the couple years helped really define what I wanted to study. Once I got in I had the option of working on unfunded research which opened a lot of avenues. I was able to get a project that worked well with my studies and timeframe. If you don't have work experience after college, you may want to consider it before starting a masters. Also it lets the admissions people see that you can be effective in an enginnering enviornment, and that the few grades that caused a problem don't reflect your abilities as an enginner.