Need more $$$, thinking about changing careers or doing side work. 11

[nuuvox000]

I know the title sounds a little silly but that's what it comes down to at the present moment.

I think I might need to make more money, considering a career change. HVAC engineer (PE) currently; looking for advice and experiences.

Hello, my wife and I just went through our finances in detail and things aren't looking great; with the student loan repayments starting up again, we discovered that we have a net negative income every month. We have started to cut what we can but it's still pretty dire right now. My end of year bonus is generally pretty large so we should be able to coast on that for a while. But it's got me thinking about possibly going back to school, my wife possibly going back to school, etc.

We've got 3 young kids so we're trying to avoid my wife working full time if possible; she currently works very part time. We have a modest mortgage that's on the lower end for our state (house barely fits us), 10 year old cars, don't live extravagantly at all. Just a little wild how much things cost.

I currently make $100k with 7 years experience and a pretty good bonus. Seems to be about in line with what I see as I look around for job postings for HVAC and plumbing engineers with my experience in my geographic location. So it doesn't seem like hopping to another company will do a whole lot. My wife currently only makes $10k per year but we'd both like her to be home with the kids as much as possible, for now at least. Wife is starting to pick up more hours at night so I won't see her much right now but it is what it is for now.

I guess I'm hoping some people reading this have hopped careers after investing significant time already and I'd love to know how that went for you and what you learned. Did you get more schooling?

My grades in college weren't stellar but not horrible either. Wondering about going the route of patent attorney but not sure if I'll enjoy it. Even thinking about doing something in the medical field; opthalmologist, psychiatrist, etc. but I'm just brainstorming at this phase. Some of what I've written is probably very naive but we literally started thinking about this just yesterday afternoon. Also curious about what side work I could possibly do that would make more than uber/door dash.

Tldr; jumping careers after 7 years to something different possible? What was your experience or advice? Thanks for reading.

Also adding, I know student loan deferment or decreasing payment amount is possible, and we may have to do that, but right now we would pay them off in 10 years with our current payments. Going longer than that would obviously suck because of all the added interest. Thanks in advance to anyone who responds.

Edit: probably helps to add that I'm 35 years old.

 

[CWB1]

I jumped from tradesman to engineer, then engineer to regulator. Both involved a temporary pay cut and quite a bit of training/education but resulted in a higher income. Jumping to another industry or position can certainly be done if you're willing to accept the tradeoffs but I would be prepared with a backup plan in case it goes sideways.

That said, IME in an applies-applies comparison (same role, same industry, and areas with similar population-density) the cost of living stateside varies drastically whereas income doesnt so moving generally nets more than job-hopping. JMO but if a decent house in a nicer neighborhood is more than 2-3x your salary then you're in a high-cost area.

Another big factor is the aforementioned spousal income. Not sure if its possible for you wife but many parents are working from home today to save on daycare costs. Disclaimer: Like most I despise calling into meetings and hearing either loud children or dogs, so judgment is needed.

 

[Consulting_analyst]

If you are interested in a PE role with a consulting firm based in Houston, I'm happy to share the description with you. Higher pay and advancement opportunities.

 

[nuuvox000]

Thanks, CWB1, great thoughts. I'm going to put "moving" into our thoughts and see where it lands; that's a good point.

Consulting_analyst, way too early to tell if I'm headed that direction, but I appreciate the thought.

 

[phamENG]

I'd be wary of Consulting_analyst's offer. They joined the forum today, have logged in only once, and have only responded to this thread....

 

[Consulting_analyst]

Nothing shady going on here. My husband is a PE and building a great team, I am a management consultant in technology and helping him explore the talent market in the US. The original poster has a unique combo of skills that would be a good fit (HVAC experience specifically), so I decided to reach out. No harm, no foul.

 

[LittleInch]

I'm a little lost on how far adrift you are every month?

You said $125, but not including Food and some allowance for clothes etc isn't really going to work, but then $1000 more and you would be ok?

It's not easy for sure - those pre school? years are tough - but maybe look a few more years into the future when you or your wife don't have to be at home all the time once schooling starts and that's when a bit more time appears. Even after school stuff is a bit cheaper than all day.

It's easy to think and plan for any other study, but the time taken is significant and your kids grow up very fast. Time spent now and at weekends etc is so important long term and should be high on your time budget requirements. And then with kids comes more time taking them places, especially if they get into sports or dancing or anything and with three it's definitely hard core - one goes one way, one goes the other and the third one....

Seven years into anything, it's not so easy to move professions and get into the same earning bracket immediately.

First port of call is your current work - most companies know they need to have a bit in reserve to keep people if they ask so 5 to 10% might be possible.

You don't mention any family or other support locally you can tap into? Is that an option anywhere from either side?

But thinking and planning is good, but the time issue in your case is the most crucial I think. Kids need parents, not carers or fancy holidays or flash cars. We had no real family support and had 3 under 5, but went on holidays to see family / cousins, ran a car for 10 years, didn't get a new kitchen, but life happens and I think we've navigated it fairly well. Let us know how you get on.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[MintJulep]

10 year old cars

Your wife works at home but you have multiple cars?

You need one. Sell the other(s).

What other debt so you have. All debt is poison.

Mobile phones? Find the cheapest service you can. Amazon prime? Netflix?

 

[nuuvox000]

Thanks for the advice LittleInch, yes, I figure about $1000 would cover food, clothes, and unexpected. You're right about the time; I'd have to spend a ton of time studying and that time has to come from somewhere which means it would be taken from my kids. Thanks for bringing that to my mind as it's very important for me to consider that. Unfortunately, both sides of our families aren't able to help with things, not even with time. It would be great if we could get a cheap or free babysitter now and then but they're just so busy with work and things. I appreciate your perspective!

MintJulep, where we live, things are far away and public transit infrastructure is very bad everywhere in the state; we both need cars unfortunately (especially for my work where I visit job sites). Unless we moved closer to the city, but house prices jump higher the closer you get. Yeah, we've cut all unnecessary services as of yesterday and have very cheap phone plans; been getting videos and books from the library for a little while now so we'll probably keep doing that more often.

 

[NorthCivil]

If you have the capability (soft + hard skills), and the stomach for it, running your own business will offer you much more financial freedom.

that said, I am so glad i started my own business before my wife got pregnant. there is no way I would feel confident enough to take the risk of quitting my job to hang my own shingle with dependents relying on me.

 

[LittleInch]

I read this again as I'd missed some info int he middle of all of it.

Kids at 5,3 & 1. That's hard as it happened to me and your and your wifes time will be either work, the kids or sleep just about. These years are hard until the smallest gets to go to school or nursery, especially if you have no family support on either side.

Think it might be time to have a decent sit down with the owners and get some crucial update / information on where they see the company going and your role in it before making any rash moves. If you've already basically peaked int he company then it may be time to cast glances into bigger ponds.

It is always good to have a bit of a peek into other local opportunities to know where you stand.

Take a bit of time - the year end is always good for time for reflection and what you want / need / can do in the New Year, talk to through together and then act on your decision. What ever you decide to do maybe program in a pause part way through after 6 months to see if its working.

Life will get easier / better / more money, but might take 3 or 4 years before you see it start to improve substantially.

Let us know what you come up with, even after the New Year - threads stay open for 6 months after the last post.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[nuuvox000]

NorthCivil, I don't think I have the skills required for running my own business quite yet; although I'm feeling more and more confident in my field, I think I've got a few years at least before I could pull the trigger on something like that. I think the risk involved is probably too much as well. Glad it worked out for you though, that's great.

LittleInch, the owners are pretty transparent on their vision for the future of the company and we discuss it at least once a year during reviews. They'd like to continue growing steadily with me running the engineering/BIM team. I've got a few people under me now so that seems to be going fine. I think I mentioned it in another comment but I'm the lead engineer in the company and I've only been here 7 years. Although this has forced me to learn a lot of things quickly (sometimes through mistakes), I do believe that there are things I'm missing out on by not working with engineers who have 20 or 30 years under their belts.

On the other hand, it's pretty amazing to not really have managers over me (only the owners, but they trust me to do my own thing and leave me to it), which is why I'm wary to step out of my situation. I know from experience how management can make work a good or bad experience. Wouldn't hurt to look into it though, I think I'm going to start poking around just to see.

I'll update you, thanks again. For now, just pinching pennies and wife is picking up hours while we think about our options.

 

[SWComposites]

Frankly, sounds like you are underpaid for the level of responsibility you currently have. Suggest you discuss with your owners during a review soon where they see you salary progressing in line with increased responsibility and company size.

 

[MintJulep]

I agree with SWComposites. It sounds like you are the de facto "Director of Engineering". You should research what that title typically earns in your market.

Also, at that level ownership/partnership is common. You should be discussing a path towards becoming a owner/partner.

That won't be a gift, you'll need to buy in, which currently seems like a challenge (actually an impossibility) for you. You mentioned "a pretty good bonus". One option would be the bonus as shares instead of cash. Any idea of the company value relative to your typical bonus?

There are some threads here about the value of an engineering company (although I can't find them now).

 

[LittleInch]

"There are some threads here about the value of an engineering company (although I can't find them now)."

Most of them say the value is next to zero....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[phamENG]

Sounds like OP is part of a design/build company. Very common in the building MEP and Fire Protection world. If that's the case, it's likely not just an engineering firm, it's also a contractor. There's likely to be some real asset value there. This kind of company becomes a little easier to value in a 'traditional' business sense and it could well have a lot of value just beyond the depreciating vans and tools.

 

[jmbelectrical]

You should consider a career change to forensic engineering. As a mechanical PE with seven years of design experience, you would be considered qualified by most forensic engineering firms. While the salaries are only marginally better than those in MEP consulting engineering, the work schedule is more flexible and less demanding (as an example of this, some forensic engineering firms consider full-time employment to be 32 hours of billable time per week). This could allow you to continue doing HVAC design work on a part-time basis for additional income without getting burned out. Obviously, you would need to ensure that the forensic engineering firm does not offer design services. Most don't, but there are a few out there that do. MEP consulting engineering firms prefer to have full-time employees, however, some are open to the enlistment of part-time and 1099/contract workers - especially in today's market where there is such high demand for MEP engineers.

I can't say enough great things about forensic engineering. It's interesting, thought-provoking, and never gets dull. I think it can also make you a better design engineer. If there is one drawback, it's that it requires a lot of travel. As someone with a wife and kids, you will need to consider its impact on your family. In my case, on days where I'm performing site visits, I'm usually back home on the same day. There are, however, instances where overnight travel is required. On average, this occurs about three times a month.

I'm an electrical PE who left MEP consulting engineering after about 20 years. A career change is certainly possible in your case.

 

[nuuvox000]

Thanks, all. I definitely need to dig in on my salary potential in my area more. I'm going to start checking postings every day and possibly set up some interviews to get an idea. I guess it would make senses to ask for more money first from my present employer, rather than come to them after I have an offer elsewhere though. We have an annual review in about a month where we usually discuss these things so I'm going to try to prepare for that.

Yes, it's a design/build company so out of 150 employees (field workers/project managers/estimators), there are just three engineers, including myself. It's privately-owned so I guess I don't understand why the owners would want to make me part-owner? Maybe that's a design firm thing or it's very possible I just don't understand enough about business (I really don't).

Forensic engineering sounds interesting and is something I have never considered so I appreciate the information about that. I'll look into it, thanks!

 

[SWComposites]

Yes, many companies and managers take it badly when you present an outside offer to try to get a higher salary. My last company would typically immediately terminate anyone who did that.

 

[StrucPatholgst]

I make $120k in a very easy corporate gig working remote at home (commercial real estate consulting). And then I have a side business where I make an additional $130k-180k a year doing residential engineering work, depending on the economy. Don't sell yourself short. You already have a PE. Get out there and use it. Slam dunk easy way for a mechanical PE to make side money is residential Manual J calculations. Also in some states you can get a home inspector's license with your PE and some free training. I average $1500 a week alone in side money just with those two things. I know one guy that makes a good living entirely off of Manual J calculations, from his kitchen table.

 

[nuuvox000]

StrucPatholgst, sorry for the late response, I wasn't notified by email like usual. Those are really great ideas and I thank you for letting me in on your information. How did you get started doing Manual J's? I've done a few over the years for my bosses friends. I guess I would just start calling home developers and asking if they have any needs for it? Being a home inspector sounds like a really interesting proposition (with training of course). I know the home inspector I hired for my house missed so many basic things and he's been doing it for 40 years; so if he can do it, I'm sure I can! ha ha
Thanks again.

Someone mentioned updating everyone with how things are going. It's been about four months now. I received a $7k raise and $30k bonus at the end of the year; I used the entire bonus to pay off my highest interest debts and things are going much better. Credit cards are paid off and we don't have that monthly payment to worry about anymore. I also happened to be very close to paying off a couple of student loans so I don't have those monthly payments either. My wife has picked up a few more hours every week and it's amazing how far that little extra amount of money can go. Lastly, I made a mistake in my calculations and didn't take off our babysitter expenses that we were paying previously(approximately $900 per month). Pretty embarrassing for an engineer but a happy discovery.

At this point, I'm not looking to go back to school or change careers. However, the fear of poverty has been carved into my skull and we are still pinching where we can and paying off things as soon as we can. I'm also still interested in looking into side gigs that don't take a ton of hours to get a little more money and pay off loans. Thanks again to all of you for the great advice and commiseration.