Bill of materials for structural drawings?

[StrucDesignPE]

Long story short, client contracted us to create structural drawings for a large residential project designed and drafted by himself. We completed structural drawings and client is now requesting we produce a bill of materials for hardware we call out in structural drawings (eg screws, joist hangers, ABs, etc.) In over thirty years of business, we have never before provided this information as this has always fallen under the purview of the contractor and the shop drawing process.

Is this a legitimate request on his part? Is this something others have ever done as part of their normal services when creating structural drawings for a project?

 

[JAE]

Never done it for residential or not (only on bridge projects for DOT's)

What's in your contract/agreement with the client?

There's no standard in the USA that requires an engineer to do a Bill of Materials for buildings that I'm aware of.





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[StrucDesignPE]

Just the typical:
foundation plans and details, framing plans and details, lateral bracing plans and details. Nothing that would indicate we are to provide BoM. We produced what is required for permit. It is only after some revisions were requested to the original that the client has asked for us to do a BoM. Client had stated they would provide them. This is in USA.

 

[jdgengineer]

As mentioned above this would not be common for residential construction and certainly would not have been expected in standard scope of work unless it was specifically addressed in the contract.

However, I'd consider providing it if they would pay me hourly for it. I'm a slow counter though and would want to double check to make sure I'm not wrong. Would probably charge 2x the time it took me to actually design it...

 

[dik]

Other than for exceptional projects have we prepared a Bill of Materials, and only a few times in over 40 years...

Dik

 

[dhengr]

StrucDesignEIT:
Well... the client is most always right, if he wants to pay for the service and your extra effort. Materials lists and quantities are not normally part of the Structural Engineers construction document package around here. The contractor usually does some of this while bidding, and then certainly while ordering construction materials and misc. hardware, etc. on larger jobs. On residential work, and the small contractors involved, the contractors buy nails and screws by the box or pail and then throws the leftovers in their truck for the next job. They count the number of joists or trusses and then go buy the hangers, plus a couple, etc. Sure as hell if you started listing these quantities, they would start the layout from the other end and all the quantities would change be some amount, and then you would be the s.o.b. It sounds like the client is a another breed of pretend engineer , used to seeing materials lists on drawings. He has a CAD program, fancies himself a great Arch., and is acting as his own G.C. Listing and ordering materials and quantities is his job, not yours.

 

[StrucDesignPE]

That is my fear.

 

[MotorCity]

We have provided a bill of materials for a small truss repair/reinforcement project where the contractor was a small shop. But, the more information you provide, the more you open yourself up to disputes and you may end up paying for any miscounts. If its in your contract, then you're stuck with it. If its not in your contract I would avoid doing it, even for generous compensation...its not worth it.

 

[hokie66]

Where I work, a Bill of Materials is the work of a Quantity Surveyor.

 

[JoelTXCive]

I'm a big fan of the ' +/- ' symbol and the ' ~ ' symbol when it comes to quantities. Along with the statement "contractor to verify all quantities"

 

[JoelTXCive]

I just remembered.....On the residential side, there are companies that specialize in doing quantities. They charge something along the lines of .07 cents per square foot covered in our area (Houston). They will do an entire material take-off on a home, including all the joist hangers and anchors bolts etc. If your local Homebuilding Assoc has a directory of members, there's probably several take-off experts on there.

Also most lumber companies will do a quick & dirty lumber take-off for free if the project is large enough.

 

[msquared48]

If you are working for a contractor as an employee, definitely, but not normally as a structural engineer working for a homeowner or Architect.

That's normally the contractor's pencil to sharpen. Your liability is in the wind is you make a mistake, both from whomever he hires as a contractor to provide a bid, and from the client. I would never touch it, particularly if you have never done estimating before. You would have to budget for waste product too...

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[OldBldgGuy]

I was a contractor for 25 years, working for and taking over from my father who did it for 20 years before I started and 20 years after I joined him. I am no longer a contractor, only a consultant. I would never have asked or expected a bill of materials from the engineer, that was my job as a contractor (especially a design-build one) and when someone asks me for one now, which they occasionally do, I politely tell them to pound salt.

 

[Ron]

That's a shop drawing thing. Not for design drawings. Don't do it....it increases your liability.

 

[bridgebuster]

Most of my work involves public projects and we provide an estimate of quantities for the various pay items. I've always seen the bill of materials come with the shop drawings.

 

[Rajesh V]

The possibility without structure implement in model not possible for large projects, it's possible only the ABM only on rolled main member only.

 

[darthsoilsguy2]

hope your client didn't hire a contractor who needs you to do this RedFlag

 

[dik]

bridgebuster:
In these environs, an estimate of quantities is usually done on a spreadsheet and is never part of the drawing set. An estimate of quantities is quite different from a Bill of Materials.

 

[bridgebuster]

dik,

That's what I was saying an estimate of quantities is not the same as a bill of materials.