Boeing again 47

[Brian Malone]

JohnRBaker great time capsule video. Unigraphics had quite a system! Section generation, analysis functions, joystick and side keypad!! My first intro to CAD was around 1980 or so. I don't remember the software name, it was based on IBM Basic, input with op codes on punch cards into a System 20? The views appeared on screen after the punch card input. . . There was no real assistance with design or drawing creation - mainly, the drawing record/file was digital and could be plotted on demand (old pen plotter).

Sorry, to extend this tangent - poor "Janette" was also having to work with an older 'elbow' arm drafting machine - the department hadn't been upgraded to Vemco or Bruning track machines!

 

[Oops409]

Quartz News reported overnight that Boeing filed unfair labor practice charges with the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) against the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, claiming union bosses have been bargaining in bad faith on behalf of the 33,000 striking union members.

Boeing wrote in a statement that IAM negotiators "did not seriously consider" the latest offer earlier this week, which included a 30% wage bump over four years, up from 25%, and other benefits.

"The union's public narrative is misleading and making it difficult to find a solution for our employees," Boeing said in the filing to the NLRB, adding the union had engaged in a "pattern of bad faith bargaining." The aerospace giant retracted its "best and final" offer on Tuesday.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/boeing-fight-union-hits-turbulence-files-unfair-labor-practice

 

[SWComposites]

Really great way to get a motivated work force back making quality aircraft. Its like they intentionally want to power dive the company into the ground. Sad.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

It's making a serious mess of global commercial aviation.

The US airlines which in the past would only use Boeing are having to leverage other airframes. Which then messes up the SIM availability and spares.

 

[3DDave]

Perhaps if they offered a 10,000% pay raise contract. Would the union accept it along with the bankruptcy filing 2 weeks later? It would be an interesting experiment to force a union to decline a pay raise and demand that the settlement be less.

Then again, I hoped that the UAW would go on strike in the early 1980s over the crap quality of the cars they were building, demanding that the materials were better, the designs were better, and that the performance was better, and keep prices nearly the same by making better use of the factories by not having to deal with the existing bad designs.

Imagine American buyers seeing a union as concerned about the customer as the paycheck.

Boeing's union could have done that - gone on strike over the garbage parts that Spirit had been shipping. They were on the shop floor, could see what was happening. They share the blame.

 

[dik]

There was a time when I used to think quite highly of the US, and the UK... it's long passed.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Oops409]

Understand, but this is impressive!

Mechazilla has caught the Super Heavy booster!

https://x.com/SpaceX/status/1845442658397049011

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/15/investing/boeing-cash-crisis/index.html

This is extremely bad news, possibly fatal.

 

[AZPete]

Not that bad. Debt-servicing cash flow. Boeing needs liquidity to keep the credit rating intact and be able to service near term debt while still operating under handicap.

The layoffs and debt were baked in before the strike.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I really hope so.

A monopoly is in nobody's interest.

 

[dik]

It's almost like venture-capitalists took over Boeing...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

It may not be a monopoly for long...

https://www.cnn.com/travel/china-comac-c919-experience-intl-hnk/index.html

There is also a wide bodied airliner, the C?929. If Boeing survives this could be an additional problem for them and Airbus.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

For national security reasons, I think the US would be hard pressed to let Boeing 'sink'.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[SWComposites]

the looming bankruptcy will be a political mess. the military side will likely be sold off in pieces. the space side will be put out of its misery. hard to say what will happen with the commercial aircraft side; maybe reformed as "NewBoeingInc".

 

[SWComposites]

except they seem to treat us all like criminals at the airports ...........

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I suspect the MBA's are actually factoring in the political mess and international chaos into thier bonus plans.

 

[waross]

Is Boeing's management so focused on the battle with the union that they are forgetting the big picture?

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I suspect big picture went to the wall 3 years ago when the "blame the crew" standard reaction to a fatal crash due fundamental design which was held in stasis since the 60's failed.

 

[3DDave]

The ET-302 crew was 100% to blame. Known defect? Still flew. Known mitigation? Did opposite. CVR? Didn't panic, just wanted to get the autopilot to fly the plane because they didn't know how.

Boeing CEO, for no obvious reason: "It's all Boeing's fault. The crew did nothing wrong."

The French are still mulling over Airbus who knew ahead of time that there was a defect that could bring down a plane, didn't tell the pilots, didn't have a plan in place to mitigate. Saved a few dollars over installing a known good part.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

See.. this is the base issue Boeing have. There is a company wide belief that the fundamental issue is carried by the above statement. From shop floor through design house through sales reps..

The rest of the world think utter nonsense and why on earth do you keep repeating this?