Eng-Tips is the largest engineering community on the Internet
Intelligent Work Forums for Engineering Professionals
Boeing again 47
- Thread starter GregLocock
- Start date
Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
Hitting the news feeds in Europe.
Exec mgmt said this was the best offer the company could afford.
If mgmt gives a better contract, then they are shown to have lied. If they were not at all bluffing, and the calcs show that the offer was best possible without harming the company at large, then the only solution remaining is one the following: 1) take the offer immediately, 2) watch the offer reduce as the strike persists, 3) curtail cash flow loss by furloughing other personnel, 4) progressively deconstruct the company to preserve value. No matter how one cuts it, the goose that lays the golden egg will become sick as this progresses. Long enough, and the golden eggs stop.
If mgmt gives a better contract, then they are shown to have lied. If they were not at all bluffing, and the calcs show that the offer was best possible without harming the company at large, then the only solution remaining is one the following: 1) take the offer immediately, 2) watch the offer reduce as the strike persists, 3) curtail cash flow loss by furloughing other personnel, 4) progressively deconstruct the company to preserve value. No matter how one cuts it, the goose that lays the golden egg will become sick as this progresses. Long enough, and the golden eggs stop.
I've got a great bridge for sale...
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
JohnRBaker
Mechanical
AZPete said:
That's standard negotiating 101, and both sides know it, but what else were they expected to say, "We have more than enough to meet your demands, but we've decided not to."
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
In about 60 years in the construction industry, on only two projects has the company admitted that they made money.
A common thought process of owners;
"If everything goes perfectly on this contract, I will make $50,000. Unfortunately it was a normal, less than perfect, contract and I only made $40,000.
Ergo: I "Lost" $10,000 on the contract."
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
A common thought process of owners;
"If everything goes perfectly on this contract, I will make $50,000. Unfortunately it was a normal, less than perfect, contract and I only made $40,000.
Ergo: I "Lost" $10,000 on the contract."
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
![[poke]](/data/assets/smilies/poke.gif "[poke] [poke]")
JohnRBaker
Mechanical
Yea, when I was a project engineer for a moderate sized multinational corporation manufacturing commercial machinery for the food and chemical industries, we were always being asked to cut the cost of our machinery and after each contract was completed we were told that we either lost money or barely broke even, although every year the company showed a healthy profit. It was like the individual contracts, on paper at least, cost more than what we were paid, but when you got to the end of the year and added-up all the revenues and deducted the expenses, the final number was always in the black. Now don't get me wrong, there were times when it was obvious that the real money maker was the spares department, where we provided repair parts at highly marked-up prices. After all, our customers were running production operations, either producing some chemical product, such as paint or plastic or pharmaceuticals, or over on our side, bakeries producing bread, rolls, pies and cakes and such, which means that when a machine somewhere in the production went-down, the whole operation was idle. So we sold them a lot of critical 'spare parts' up front, just in case, and of course, if something happened later on and the customer needed a replacement part, they were never is a position to try and bargain for a 'good deal'. Hence, I suspect that much of our profit at the end of the year was the result of our 'repair and spares business'.
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
Sure, whatever.
Except, in this instance the CEO is new, has no history good or bad with the union, and gave them his public word as CEO--as opposed to the corporate bargaining team negotiating and keeping the public chatter quiet. So, that options are 1) this CEO doesn't know what he's doing, made a rookie mistake, and will end by breaking his word, or 2) called it correctly, went for best, will progressively work counterproductive operations out of the company.
Word of advice when dealing with proprietors of Option 2: failure to engage constructively and/or honestly will result in becoming obsolete.
Except, in this instance the CEO is new, has no history good or bad with the union, and gave them his public word as CEO--as opposed to the corporate bargaining team negotiating and keeping the public chatter quiet. So, that options are 1) this CEO doesn't know what he's doing, made a rookie mistake, and will end by breaking his word, or 2) called it correctly, went for best, will progressively work counterproductive operations out of the company.
Word of advice when dealing with proprietors of Option 2: failure to engage constructively and/or honestly will result in becoming obsolete.
Agree. One of the auto import plants I am familiar with, bids construction and plant rennovations, then they beat the low bidders price down. Therefore all General Contractors know this, and the ones willing to play the game, all pad their bids so they can provide cuts and make the Plant PM look good to his management!
Not accepting first offer is bargaining unit decision, not Union Officials trying to strike a deal with Boeing. Boeing likely did not meet all of Unions demands with first offer.
Yes strikes like the Air Traffic Controllers under Regan can result in major career changes!
Since Boeing's aircraft production has become Global Affair, it is far easier for Boeing to ship more work overseas.
Not accepting first offer is bargaining unit decision, not Union Officials trying to strike a deal with Boeing. Boeing likely did not meet all of Unions demands with first offer.
Yes strikes like the Air Traffic Controllers under Regan can result in major career changes!
Since Boeing's aircraft production has become Global Affair, it is far easier for Boeing to ship more work overseas.
If this CEO made it through the BoD wicket and got chosen, he knows how the game is played. If they need to squeeze more, then the CEO simply says, "I brought my team to a "come to Jesus" meeting and they were able to "find" some more money." Had not seen a single contract negotiation where the company didn't whine about cutting things to the bone or somesuch, but was still able to come up with a better offer later when pushed.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
The rank and file typically does not review any contract offer in detail, and depend on the officials to decide. Unless there was something egregious in the offer, the rank and file typically goes along with officials' recommendation
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
I don't know how accurate the npr news article below is, but it does provide some insights to perhaps how this pot has been brewing for years. I noticed Boeing Machinists lost their Defined Benefit Retirement Plan about 10 years ago, and have been on a 401K plan like everybody else. The death of the Defined Benefit Plans along with other changes since my career beginning has killed the concept of working for a company for your whole life. 401K's make it easy for employers to hire and fire in cycles, and make it easy for employees to say the grass looks greener over there...
SWComposites
Aerospace
The NPR article is quite accurate. The IAM has been screwed over for the past 15+ years. One of the results has been very high turnover in the WA factories, as the starting wages are quite low, and there has been a lack of training. One of the many reasons for the quality issues. Its beyond sad at this point.
And its very likely that at least a summary of the proposed contract was provided to the membership before the vote, if not the entire contract.
Oh, and the "promise" to build the next airplane in Seattle was only valid for the next 4 years, which is a sick joke because anyone with a single functioning brain cell knows Boeing isn't going to launch a new airplane program in the next 4 years. I'm sure the IAM saw that as an insult.
And its very likely that at least a summary of the proposed contract was provided to the membership before the vote, if not the entire contract.
Oh, and the "promise" to build the next airplane in Seattle was only valid for the next 4 years, which is a sick joke because anyone with a single functioning brain cell knows Boeing isn't going to launch a new airplane program in the next 4 years. I'm sure the IAM saw that as an insult.
As expected, Boeing is offering an additional 5% raise to settle the strike, including and extra 1% to the original 11% upfront.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
The New York Times said:
Also read Union Officials did not take it to rank and file/ bargaining unit to vote.
So Boeing saying BAFO but no vote at this time.
arstechnia said:
Interesting article on how and why NASA decided they needed two competitors in lieu of normally down selecting to sole source. They requested additional funding to select two bidders, since since SpaceX won the proposal/bidding process, but NASA still wanted Boeing.
The union and company officials write the contract and present it to the rank and file for approval. It's always done that way.
Also read Union Officials did not take it to rank and file/ bargaining unit to vote.
?????
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
Also read Union Officials did not take it to rank and file/ bargaining unit to vote.
?????
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
Similar threads
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question