Borehole planning

[mariusa]

Dear GeoTech Engineers,

We solve business pains for GeoTech/Civil Engineering companies.

Seems like one of the areas that can be improved is Borehole planning. I'd like to ask your feedback and see if you have any issues, or feel like spending too much time, on Borehole planning.

For example, user 'crwdz7' mentioned:
"Due to some communication issues that have been occuring betwenn our firm's engineering and drilling staffs regarding geotechnical jobs, I am considering coming up with a Geotechnical Boring Assignment Sheet to use for each job that can be given to the drillers with job specific requirements."
Other examples from our existing customers:
"I need approximate boring locations on a map for attaching to permit requests. Now I have to spend a few minutes to capture a screenshot from Google, add boring locations, then copy-paste our project data in the infobox"
"To make the proposal cost estimate, I already make a boring plan in my head. After the project is won, which could be months later, I have to re-do it".

We'd like to develop something to make planning quick and easy, on top of Google/USGS Maps, but first need to learn more about what others experience.

So, here are a few questions to get the ball rolling:
* how much time does it take you to develop a boring plan?
* what info do you need to make a good plan? (e.g. area elevation)
* how many holes are there usually?
* what issues do you have with how you make & use plans now?

We know that for some proposal requests, boring plans are already made by the prime contractor.

Thanks,
Marius

 

[EireChch]

Hi Marius,

I think all of your questions above are too vague to get any answers of value. Borehole scoping, e.g. how many holes, type of borehole, type of testing etc is all dependent on what the boreholes are for i.e. a simple residential build where you may only have one bore hole to a subdivision where you may be doing 10,a multi-storey building where you may be doing several to 30m+. Its all dependent on the deveopment.

Just my thoughts. May be if you put together a scenario for us to work with.

Regards

 

[BigH]

As a geotechnical engineer I would never give drillers any such instructions. I, as the geotechnical engineer, would specify the drill borehole location - also I would never have drillers log boreholes unless the head driller (or his helper) is a trained geotechnical technician or better. I've seen a few jobs that went south when drillers logged holes and the engineer got caught with egg on the face. The companies I have worked for always had our own geotechs (engr or tech) log boreholes - drillers drill, geotechs log.

 

[mariusa]

@EireChch
This should work with most scenarios. Think of the last 2 times you had to do borehole planning and simply share your experience.

I'm looking for details such as how did you do them, how much did it take, any areas that you think were cumbersone or could be made better/faster. Thanks!

@BigH
Thanks for sharing. How do you deal with drillers after making the plan? Do you go on site and manage every drill?
How about when the driller is a trained geotechnical technician, do you just pass him the plan you made?

 

[GeoPaveTraffic]

Mariusa,

EireChch is correct. The answers to your questions depend on many factors, the least of which is what is being built. There is no "one" answer for a drilling scope. The type of structure, anticipated loads, amount of planned cut and fill, expected soil types, exiting site grades, and much more goes into developing a GOOD investigation scope of work. This is why owners, architects, developers, and (at least generally) structural engineers should not set a scope of work.

As for how we manager the drilling, we send either an engineer or a geologist to every project to layout the borings, monitor the drilling, and prepare the drill logs. Additionally, they adjust the drilling plan based on what is being encountered in the borings. We often change the sample locations based on what we are encountering to obtain better information for use in design.

Your original question reads like someone who things all projects are the same and that there is a one size fits all drilling scope. This is the kind of atitude that results in Geotechnical engineering being treated as a comoditiy and results in projects being completed with an inadaquate scope. Which in turn leads to higher construction costs.

Mike Lambert

 

[mariusa]

Mike,

That's great feedback, thanks! That's why I want to learn from the people who actually do the job, instead of planning with the team what we think it's best, have marketing convince decision makers of various companies to use this with nice presentations, and force the "upgrade" to engineers in the field.

Excellent point on changing the sample locations after work has been started, based on findings, instead of sticking to the plan. This is the kind of feedback I'm after, and see if it actually makes sense for us to build something really useful, or drop this idea and search for something else.

Note that we don't ever want to say "These are the boring you should do, based on the project info you entered". That would be stupid.
We simply want to enable the geologist in the office, or in the field, to write down the borings he/she decides in an easy to understand format, re-usable and updatable across the project. An example:

How do you layout the borings now? It could be as simple as putting marks with the pen on a printed map.
Do you consider that activity or related ones cumbersome, or are there much more important areas that you'd rather see improved?

 

[GeoPaveTraffic]

We typically just layout borings using a printed plan or map of the area. I usually use coins until I get the number and locations about right, then marking them with a pen.

If we are producing a layout as part of our proposal, we will mark them in ARC GIS.

Mike Lambert

 

[BigH]

mariusa - the way we did business is that drillers drill - period. Using, of course, proven geotechnical techniques (split spoons, shelby tubes, piezometer installations, etc.) - drillers we used were all in the business of providing drilling services to the engineering geotechnical consultant and never had a problem. It is the geotech who is responsible for identifying the investigation needed, the techniques to be used, the logging of the boreholes, etc. I like GPT's coin view . . .

 

[mariusa]

That's a practical approach, Mike