Boss did not support our position 3

[s0eebuch]

Hey all,

Looking for some advice from senior engineers. I recently had an issue where the contractor had interpreted our specifications in such a way as to omit some portion of the work.

After discussing in detail with my Boss, we agreed that the contractor's interpretation was incorrect and that I would draft a letter referencing the correct sections of the specification which indicated for the work in question to be done.

I wrote the letter and sent it out. The next morning I had a meeting so while I was out, the contractor emailed another set of questions to me and copied my Boss.

Without discussions involving either myself (the project engineer) or the client, she responded with the OPPOSITE position of that which I had indicated in my letter and which she and I had discussed the day before.

I'm very disappointed that my Boss choose not to support me in our postion to the contractor. When I presented her my concerns and requested that she "clarify the communication chain" to avoid this confusion in the future, she proceeded to blast me for my lack of respect of her position, her authority, and her knowledge.

At this point I'm confused and little unsure how to proceed. She's overly complicating a simple issue of "Why didn't you support our position to the contractor?" to beoome an issue of me questioning her authority - which I never have.

In fact, my entire point of seeking her council prior to responding to the contractor was out of respect for her authority and experience.

How can I explain to her that I need her to support me in order for me to do my job effectively? How can I further explain that my seeking her council is not a means of questioning her authority?

I don't want to involve any higher-ups as I don't want to come across as complaining - but I can't continue to put myself out there if she won't support me either.

Advice and direction would be most appreciated!

 

[MikeHalloran]

Rule 1: The boss is in charge. Do it her way.
When that is not appropriate, go to Rule 2.
Rule 2: See Rule 1.


I.e., you have to assume that The Boss knows stuff that you don't know, stuff that might cause you to select a different course of action if you knew it, but for commercial or other reasons, the boss can't tell you.

... until it becomes fluorescently obvious that the boss doesn't know more than you do, in which case it's time to get another boss.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[s0eebuch]

LOL. Ok, that's funny stuff!

Jokes, I know, but still some truth there. Maybe I'm asking too much, but I never expected to be thrown to the wolves, so to speak.

I reviewed the questions in detail and none of them warranted a complete about-face when it came to holding the contractor to our specifications.

So, unless the 'hidden managerial knoweldge' is outside the immediate sphere of our specifications and the contractor's interpretation, then I can't see why we would want to change positions.

I just can't get around the feeling that I was royally set up.

 

[PeterStock]

If you are the engineer of record, ask for her to take that role over from you due to your concerns. If she does not, and there is a substancial safety risk, report the situation and expect to be out of work soon. If there is no safety concern, then this is just a matter of opinion and your boss basicly changed her mind. Ask her again for her reasoning stating that you need to have suficient guidance to do your job properly.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

http://www.infotechpr.net

 

[s0eebuch]

PeterStock, there is no safety concern and my P.E. stamp is not on the plans. However, I am the main point of contact and have overseen the day-to-day concerning this project from the beginning.

The other concern is that the Client originally wanted to back down from the confrontation. Considering there is a large change order in the works, my suggestion was to forgo this fight in favor of focusing our energies (and remaining budget) on the change order fiasco.

Instead, my Boss went against the client and against my intial suggestions and instructed me to proceed accordingly. In other words, I swallowed my pride, bit my tongue, ignored my experience, and proceeded to respond how she and I had agreed.

Then the overnight about-face.

I just don't get it. There's no logic to it.

 

[MintJulep]

Sounds like your boss is:

A) Stupid
B) A bitch
C) Senile
D) Some combination of A, B and C

Just to further muddy the waters, since you are writing letters to the contractor, is there a sentence in the contract somewhere to the effect of "Communication other than official project correspondence shall have no force"?

 

[rowingengineer]

Sounds like you got hung out to dry, I had this happen to me once on a safety issue, I now work somewhere else. Personally, i would be pissed off and would try to raise this again with the boss at a later date explaining the problem. because if it happens again on another issue i'm sure it will be bigger problem, may even harm your career. sit her down and explain the trust issue, if she get on her horse about all the other sh*t, shot the horse down with a straight comment like, "this isn't about respect this is about presenting a united front".

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realize that they like it

 

[apsix]

It happens, people change their minds. Don't feel too upset about that, put it down to experience.

However, her response to your questioning is out of order. She should be able to explain her decision logically and without getting abusive. Hopefully it's a one off.

 

[GregLocock]

or E) was misinformed by the OP
or F) had a rethink or found some other info out.

If this is the first time you have done this sort of thing, it might have been better to draft a reply and let your boss send it out. Not much help, unless you have a time machine.

I suggest you just go to her and ask what she wants to do from here on. If you can live with it, do it. If you can't, resign.



Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[SNORGY]

This sounds like a case of CYA.

Regrettably, some might be too big to cover completely...

You might be well-advised to not mention this in conversation with her...

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[MintJulep]

Yeah, F) is a possibility. Except when questioned by the OP the reply should have been "I got some new information since yesterday that caused me to change our position."

 

[TenPenny]

I would say that overnight, she was given direction by the client. And she doesn't want to say she was wrong, and therefore she took offense when you asked her about it.

The solution is to smile, nod, and carry on.

 

[msquared48]

"her" name is not Ben Dover, is it?

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[patprimmer]

In my experience when a boss does a 180 on you like that then gets short and defensive, it is for the following reasons.

1) They found information contradictory to what you supplied and they felt set up so reversed.

2) They have commercial or political information or reasons you don't have, like maybe the contractor is some ones son or whatever or there will be extra charges to fix the problem later, but not initially.

3) You boss still agrees with you but was over ruled at a higher level and cannot explain, so just bulldozes you to cover her own aggravation at being over ruled.

If policy on such matters is outside the scope of your job, and what was done is not unethical, illegal or dangerous in a way that might reflect poorly on you, suck it in and respect their right to make policy decisions without your council nor approval.





Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[moltenmetal]

Your boss is an ass for not explaining something which you clearly deserve an explanation for. She's also clearly insecure about her position if she gets defensive and starts the "are you questioning my authoritay?!" stuff on you.

As to the soundness of the decision itself, unless you get the straight goods from her you'll never really know. It is entirely possible that she knows something you don't.

Or she could just be an idiot. That's also possible.

 

[TenPenny]

Remember your original position - maybe your boss just came to the realization that you were right in the first place?

Your gut told you to do one thing, she convinced you to do another, you went along (against your better judgement), she changed her mind, and now you're upset.

I would just smile, nod, and congratulate her for a good decision.

 

[s0eebuch]

Thanks for all the support, folks.

TenPenny - I completely agree except for the fact that she contradicted me to the contractor and to our client. I feel I've lost a little credibility with both.

I requested a meeting for Monday, after we return from the holidays, to discuss a few things.

My intent is to stick to facts and project communication issues only - since the issues of "respect, authority, and knowledge" were never brought up until now, I'll assume they were simply a reactive type of response brought about by emotion. I just had my performance evaluation in October, and NONE of these issues came up then.

Thanks and I'll let ya'll know how it turns out.

 

[patprimmer]

Ummmm

Respect is a two way thing.

You should have your disagreements in private then present a united front to the customer.

The only deviation from that can be if you really disagree with the course of action you were instructed to take, you can present it as I have been instructed by management to blah blah blah.

If you feel you have been asked to do something illegal or totally abhorrent, you can refuse, but be prepared to resign or be fired if you take that stand.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

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for site rules

 

[NomLaser]

I would be willing to put money on Pat's reply. Some other agenda caused her to change her mind. Chances are it was either financial or an upper-management decision.

 

[csd72]

It is often a problem on this side of the pond too.

So much so that our CDM (construction health and safety) rules state that if any other party changes the design(including the client) then they become the designer.

My attitude is that if it is anything that is not safety critical then it is up to management but if it is safety critical then you have a duty of care to ensure it is done.