Brick Wall 1

[WARose]

I got a builder who wants me to use a brick wall as a foundation wall (2-4" bricks back to back) and anchor the mud sill plate bolts in the brick re-bar holes. (They will be empty as the wall is unreinforced.)

I have to admit a extreme level of discomfort with this. I think I've seen it a few times around garages and so forth.....but the typical house foundation wall I am use to seeing is the bearing wall coming down on a 8" CMU....and the brick will be in front of that (all sitting on a 12" CMU with a wall footing).

As for the anchor....that gives me real heartburn (especially when I think of QC).

Thoughts?

 

[dik]

Bricks may not be waterproof and if subject to moisture can deteriorate... even more, with frost freeze-thaw...

Dik

 

[EngineeringEric]

Those holes are not rebar holes. those are fire holes so they bake evenly.

Usually i have seen anchor bolts placed in the vertical joint between the bricks. This detail sucks, but houses have it. I usually tell contractors/HO that yes it is used but that doesn't mean it is adaquate or recommended, and i will not specify something i don't believe in. it is in the clients best interest.

 

[JAE]

I wouldn't do that ever.

Check out Eng-Tips Forum's Policies here:
faq731-376

 

[dhengr]

WARose:
The contractor first has to talk with the brick-maker guy, he must know the hole dia. and the thread size and class of fit, and give that to you so you know what A.B’s. to spec. Then, the hole spacing is critical, along with the brick lay-up, because you have to thread the A.B’s. down through several brick courses to develop enough uplift. Then, the contractor has to get with his brick-putter-inner guy and spec. which holes on which bricks are to be threaded, because they charge by the whole for threading. It sounds like that contractor is working with pick-up, but an empty tool belt.

 

[WARose]

[blue](JAE)[/blue]

I wouldn't do that ever.

I've seen it a few times with curtain walls (or walls for garages). But the anchor concerns me as much as anything. Not sure how that would work.

 

[oldestguy]

Sometimes a guy has to go on to other clients. One thing that may convince the owner however is cost and future maintenance, such as waterproofing. Masons are not cheap and they are slow. Time is money. Structurally consider no bonding and thus a thicker wall may be needed. A caved in wall makes everyone mad.

 

[WARose]

Looking through some references I have.....I can't find a single example of a anchor (in shear or tension) embedded in brick masonry. About the closest thing to it is pilasters, a cavity wall filled with grout in the gap, or something mechanical (that is in bearing).

 

[HuckleberryFinn]

WARose,

I used to live in Greenville and (as you say) my garage was constructed similar to this (DH Horton was my builder) - it worked OK (the house was built in 98' in Simpsonville). That said, I don't know - it's a pretty shady detail. I'm sure it works OK most of the time, but that one would keep me up at night. Personally, I'd tell the guy to pound sand.

Switching gears - from a code perspective, the IRC (I'm referencing 15') says in Chapter 4 (403.1): "All exterior walls shall be supported on continuous solid or fully grouted masonry or concrete footings, crushed stone footings, wood foundations, or other approved structural systems [...]". If you're looking for a polite way of declining, perhaps reference this provision to him and let the code writers be the bad guy instead of you? Alternatively, Is there any chance you could get him to use the crushed stone footing detail from the IRC (assuming you can otherwise get it to work for your project) and substitute the brick for the PT footing plate that's typically wood? At least that way, you'd be closer to a detail that's been vetted and published by the IRC and give him sort-of what he's asking for?

Agree the anchor bolt is still problematic; No clue about how to solve that one.

 

[dhengr]

WARose:
Have you taken a look at the various Tech. Notes on Brick Construction by The Brick Industry Assoc?

http://www.gobrick.com.

and 703-620-0010. Call someone (a real engineer not a phone answering monkey) in their engineering dept. and see what they have to say about the detail you are dealing with. It is probably o.k. in bearing, and that’s about all.

 

[masonrygeek]

I agree with dhengr and talk to someone at the BIA.

Generally the holes in brick (core holes) are small diameter holes (or sometimes square) that typically don't line up when the brick are laid in running bond. They are often 1" in diameter or sometimes smaller. I wouldn't rely on them to put an anchor bolt in. As EngineeeringEric says, you would put the anchor bolt in the collar joint between the wythes of brick. Which means that the collar joint has to be filled solid (not often done and the two wythes have to be ties together with wall ties to keep from separating under load. Maybe there is another way...