Bridge Collapse in MN 29

[kenvlach]

The woman in the video on the cellphone was identified (maybe on ABC's Nightline?); she was reporting the collapse to 911.
Far better than some TV 'personalities' discussing frequencies!

 

[unclesyd]

Does anyone think that new information will change anything?

Here is the most traveled bridge in Mn with known deficiencies and the official stance was wait and see what will happen.

The only news reporter that appeared to have any inkling of what was going on was Greta Van Susteren. She asked a questions about the stresses it would take to cause such a failure.

 

[strguy11]

unclesyd -

Maybe it will shed light on the fact that our infrastructure is in dire need of repair. If it were not for this tragic incident, the general public would probably not be aware of this, or pay much attention. Maybe we can actually get congress to fund some transportation projects.

 

[prost]

Sure our infrastructure is in dire need of repair and money. So is everything else, schools, social services, even defense (can't vouch for it, one think tank guy on the radio claimed we were eating up the service lives of so many of our military systems, that it would take $1 trillion to replace it all). I heard an estimate of $180 billion to replace the bad bridges. Where's that money going to come from? NCLB (No Child Left Behind)? That new prescription drug benefit for seniors from a couple years ago? Get rid of all of those programs, and you aren't even close to having enough. For all of you who say there is 'dire need,' tell us where you would get the money? Who would lose their funding so we can repair all the bridges?

I didn't mean this to be a political discussion, just want to know where the money would originate to repair all these bad bridges?

 

[J1D]

The bridge collapsed in 4 seconds. And from the video, the failure is apparently shear type. It looks like one (or more) web member near support failed first.

 

[SteelMover]

Prost -

How about repealing the tax decrease for the wealthiest Americans?

When much of our infrastructure was built, dams, interstates, etc. 30s to 60s the top tax bracket ranged from 62% - 92%.

Now its political

 

[unclesyd]

If you can catch the latest update by NTSB Chairman on the bridge failure investigation. This will be an enlightment.

He mentioned that they saw a 50 ft "shift" in the southern end if the bridge and that the southern end maybe the point of interest.

This marvelous computer program they have is an FEA program. He had to read what FEA stands for. They are going to use this to take out pieces of the bridge and see where it falls.

The good news, apparently the death toll is going to be as bad as originally thought.

 

[prost]

Look at the numbers--lowering taxes decreases tax revenue in the short term, but substantially increases tax revenue in the long term. This is not rocket engineering--it happened when JFK got tax reductions through Congress, it happened with RR got tax reductions, it happened yet again when GB II got tax reductions. AND, to answer the question of what happens when you Raise taxes, all you have to do is look at what happened with GW I raised taxes; a recession followed. How's that for bipartisan? Lowering taxes stimulates economic activity.

 

[SteelMover]

And deteriorates infrastructure

 

[bimr]

Did anyone else notice that the bridge seemed to come apart just south of the Contractor's semi-trailer cement truck and mobile mixing trucks (truck with white cab) as seen in these Journal Sentinel photos:

The center of the bridge also appears to have split and zippered apart down the middle of the deck. The split is widest near the mixing truck.

 

[sreid]

When I look at the video in stop motion, I believe I see a wave traversing the bridge from the unseen far end (my assumption being that there has been a partial collapse at the unseen end). When the wave hits the visible end , the truss breaks at the pier then a wave (or collapse) moves in the opposite direction.

I think the speed of the wave make the bridge appear to be falling straight down in real time.

 

[casseopeia]

Hey, not all architects are sitting around picking out pretty colors! When I got out of school, with a BS/Arch, I went to work for a structural consultant that specialized in erection procedure and failure analysis. I modeled failures as well as inspected may structures, from waste digesters to bridges, for all types of distress. I’ve spent long hours in a crane or manlift in Chicago winters trying to find stress cracks in steel structures. I spent seven years doing structural steel shops drawings. My boss was a former chief engineer at American Bridge and Iron. It was an excellent training ground.

Maybe not all architects have had such experience in engineering and failure analysis, and certainly not many female architects, but you can’t start bashing them all or I’m gonna have to start bi!ch slappin’ ya.

Actually, I don’t mean to rant too much, but I don’t like to see the polical/CYA turn the investigation has taken. I think it taints what should be a purely scientific endeavor, regardless of liability. Analyze what happened without first looking to see who has the most money or who you can blame for the most political gain.

And I have some really bad news from the West Coast where I no live. I have received a couple of email from friends I consider intelligent asking me if I heard that it must have been a terrorist bomb and that the Bush administration is keeping secret the real death toll of almost 100 people. I try to explain the current and far more likey theories, but not many are listening.

My new sign off, “For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who do not, no proof is possible.”




"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[Pud]

As a result of all this, the UK politicians have decided to review the bridges in the Uk (must need something to do!)

Our local bridge (not steel) will no doubt be subject to a major inspection...after all, it's been there since 1674....

http://www.thisiscorbridge.co.uk/graphics/corbridge_bridge1.jpg

Agree with all of above re media "experts". Here in the UK we have all sorts of academics on tv, expounding their opinions (for that's all they are) of the cause of failure of a structure some 2000 miles away. I have yet to hear one say "Let's wait until the Engineer's reports are in". But I suppose that is not "News".

Hope you guys over there sort it out without too many politicians getting involved (have not seen a US engineer on the tv yet!!) Condolences to the families of the lost.


Best regards


Harry

 

[denoid]

casseopeia-

I'm not bashing Architects, and gender has nothing to do with it. With the credentials you've listed, you actually sound more like an engineer than an Architect, and I know that there are plenty more like you out there. You actually sound more qualified than most of the people I heard talking about it in the first 24 hours after the collapse.

But, there are also many Architects who don't do anything more than space planning and color selection, and it's those people I don't need to hear weighing in on this - BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT QUALIFIED, even if they did take a structures class in college 15 years ago. I would, and will say the same thing about a structural engineer who is designing only, say, concrete foundations or light gauge structures all day...they are certainly qualified in their own area, but not here. I say the same thing about myself! I'M NOT QUALIFIED TO BE A TV EXPERT ON A MAJOR BRIDGE COLLAPSE.

Hope that clarifies it for you.

 

[unclesyd]

Here is a good one, here in Florida bridge inspection reports are Top Secret by order of Homeland Security. That's OK as the local paper published an article that the public can rest assured that all bridges are in very good condition, quoting the DOT.

I tried to get a report on a recently built bridge that has been under going a lot repair work since it was commissioned. I kept hitting firewalls and finally had to contact a person who had worked on the bridge. They were replacing the inferior grout that had been used to protect the tension cables, he said tendons. This bridge spans the intracoastal waterway and is 1/2 mile from the Gulf of Mexico.

 

[Maui]

Is there a structural engineer on this website who specializes in bridge design and analysis who can offer some experience-based insight into the likely reasons for this particular collapse?

Maui

 

[JStephen]

FYI- on the screen size issue- at the lower right of my IE browser is a "Zoom Control"- zzoming to 75% or so makes everything visible, although smaller.

 

[rmw]

MikeHughes,

Why don't you red flag your second post and get the site management to fix the title of the thread. I used to live near where the Mississippi flows alongside the state of MS and I crossed that river many times on each and every one of the bridges that touch MS on one end and if one of those bridges fell.........well, you know. So the title makes my heart jump every time I read it especially the first day before I saw the news and realized that it was MN. The Mississippi is kind of a pup up there, not to minimize the enormity of the tragedy for those who lost loved ones.

rmw

 

[NS4U]

good point.. i just red flagged it

 

[BigInch]

I was trying to find the list of deficient bridges in Minnesota on the MN.DOT Website and went down this road,

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/bridge/S...atings on Web_files/Bridge Ratings on Web.htm

The hypertext link,
"Minnesota Bridge Rating and Load Posting Report for County and Local Agencies.. " appearing on this page, with a link to this page,

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/bridge/D...ndLoadPostingReports/CountyAdLocalAgencies/Co

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com