British Columbia site C hydro 24

[GregLocock]

https://thenarwhal.ca/bc-site-c-dam-16-billion-horgan/

$8 billion overrun because they started construction before the geo was in. Projected lifetime income of the dam is $2 Billion.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[waross]

Put it in perspective;
Williston lake is the largest lake in British Columbia and the seventh largest reservoir in the world.
Williston lake covers 680 Square miles.
Williston lake was formed in 1968 by the construction of the W.A.C. Bennett Dam.
The dam is on the Peace River which flows into the Mackenzie River which flows north into the Arctic Ocean.
All of the comments concerning silting and flooding have been there since 1968.
One effect of the W.A.C. Bennett dam was a relatively constant year-round water flow.
Gone were the high waters of spring and summer.
The tug boats moving freight barges on the northern reaches of the Mackenzie were both lengthened and widened to reduce the draft so as to be able to navigate the shallower water.
Compared to the 680 square miles flooded by the W.A.C. Bennett dam, the site "C" dam will flood about 10 square miles.
It's a run of the river dam and won't make much difference apart from the flooded area.
Location: 56N 12' latitude compared to Juneau Alaska at 58N 18' Latitude.
Yes there is some agriculture but this is not booming farmland.
This is more of a government blunder than an environmental disaster.
Yes, there is some environmental impact, but not much.
The big impact was the W.A.C. Bennett dam over 50 years ago.



Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[bimr]

Well I lived in Northern Manitoba from 1975 until 1985 and never saw any evidence of ecological damage. Plus spent about 2 years living in Revelstoke BC , with the main dam just about three miles north of town, flooding a length of the valley for about 60 miles......... beautiful pristine area with great hunting and fishing. WHats the problem??

Obviously, you cannot see the forest for the trees:

Delta sediment is washed away into the ocean.

Sediment is being deposited before the dams, instead of in the river deltas

Artificial islands have to be created for the wildlife:

Watch the movie about the Danube:

PBS Europe's Amazon

 

[bimr]

It is thought that there has been a ninety percent decline over the last 100 years in the amount of salmon returning to the fresh water streams in the Puget Sound, Washington, area

 

[1503-44]

Dams slow the river which can have a dramatic effect on what lives and grows there. Aquatic weeds
an accumulate, fast river fish are replaced by those that don't need as much O2. Beavers will move out. Bears can't catch salmon in deep lakes. Migration routes may be changed, or blocked. Water temperature changes, local air temperatures can be affected. Local water table rises at the lake and reduces downstream affecting wetland distributions. Large numbers of people and boats may appear.

BTW I also recognize that the petrol industry is at least as bad, if not far worse than mining. I have been boycotting BP (esp.), Shell, ExxonMobil and Cheveron products for many, many years. I won't even buy a coffee from their shops. I'd put more on that list, but I gotta get my gas from somewhere.

The Brazilian dam failure is quite a coincidence. I had not seen that news.

 

[ATSE]

If you hate mining, I'm not sure how you're going to make solar panels. Or batteries. Or windmills. Or smart phones. Or really anything.
If you say mining and dams are a disaster, you've really boxed yourself in to heating yourself with a wood fire (wood from a sustainable forest, that is) and subsistence farming.

Dams indeed mess with the ecosystem, including silt flows and fish. I argue that we work to minimize the adverse effects, not boycott dams. In most circumstances, the benefits of dams far outweigh the downsides.

I completely agree that every energy source has its downsides, some very damning. But there are no angels out there. Before pouring on the righteous indignation, it would be honest to name your viable alternatives to the current systems we all use directly or indirectly.

So we work with private companies and governments to mitigate those risks, and hold both unregulated greedy companies and wholly incompetent captive governments accountable, the best we can. We provide better engineered solutions. And hopefully not argue for going back into the dark ages.

 

[btrueblood]

The problem with attributing low fish returns to dams on Pacific NW rivers - is that it's not the biggest contributor. Many Columbia Dams were completed before the 1960s and there have been high fish counts after they were built. Fish returns on the un-dammed Skykomish/Snoqualmie/Snohomish river system has been dropping to abysmal levels. The fisheries know that the link to urban density is the problem, but until recently did not know why. Until recently:

https://www.washington.edu/news/202...or-adult-coho-salmon-deaths-in-urban-streams/

The biggest problem is the use of 6PPD (an anti-ozone aging chemical that reduces age cracking) in automobile tires. The stuff reacts with ozone to form a chemical that is toxic to coho salmon in ppb concentrations. The study was specific to that species of salmon, but the chemical is likely toxic to other fish as well. We need to come up with a less toxic chemical for our tires, and mandate its use, the sooner the better.

TL/DR: Knocking down dams is not going to help on most rivers.

 

[bimr]

The problem with attributing low fish returns to dams on Pacific NW rivers - is that it's not the biggest contributor. Many Columbia Dams were completed before the 1960s and there have been high fish counts after they were built. Fish returns on the un-dammed Skykomish/Snoqualmie/Snohomish river system has been dropping to abysmal levels. The fisheries know that the link to urban density is the problem, but until recently did not know why. Until recently:

https://www.washington.edu/news/2020/12/03/tire-re...

The biggest problem is the use of 6PPD (an anti-ozone aging chemical that reduces age cracking) in automobile tires. The stuff reacts with ozone to form a chemical that is toxic to coho salmon in ppb concentrations. The study was specific to that species of salmon, but the chemical is likely toxic to other fish as well. We need to come up with a less toxic chemical for our tires, and mandate its use, the sooner the better.

TL/DR: Knocking down dams is not going to help on most rivers.

Yes, as your article stated: tire-related chemicals are largely responsible for adult coho salmon deaths in urban streams. This is not referring to the Columbia River.

Do some further research, it is easy to find:

"The Columbia River was once the largest producing salmon ground in the world. Today however, Less than 2.5 million adult salmon are produced annually by the Columbia River. Before the dams were built, the Columbia River was estimated to produce about ten to sixteen million adult salmon per year. The construction of the dams, especially in the Lower Snake River, has altered the wildlife and the environment. There are currently, 27 major dams in the Columbia River. Consequently, Salmon are forced to flow down the Columbia River into the gauntlet of these major dams. Through these mainstreams, salmon are killed every second. Every second, we wait to stop the dams; Salmon are becoming extinct in this region. In fact, some of these Hydroelectric Dams were created to kill fish, so that they could process energy faster from the water without clogs in the turbines. Also, there are 2,900 smaller dams in the Columbia River Basin. These Dams are known as "Fish Killers". They trap salmon from migrating downstream or upstream to reproduce with other salmon. These dams also lack provision of a passage for the fish, thus trapping and eventually killing the population of Salmon in the Columbia River Basin.

The Columbia River Dam has not only impacted the salmon in this region but has also effected the environment. Since the construction of the dams in 1932, the dams have been flooding due to heavy rainstorms. Moreover, these dams provide No flood control benefits. Floods in the Columbia River Dams have been known to flood cities, posing threats to humans. These floods have depleted the irrigation in the area, thus causing the River to expand. In all, these dams pose a major impact to the environment, the wildlife, and the community in this area."


Columbia River Damming

 

[1503-44]

Same happened in Galicia after all the dams were built in the Miño and Sil River basins and others. European salmon found there have declined ever since.

img

https://media.istockphoto.com/photo...-river-mino-galicia-spain-picture-id510802914

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mino+river+galicia&t=brave&ia=images&iax=images

 

[davefitz]

The most useful purpose for most dams in canada is transferring wealth from the peasants to the well-connected contractors and their preferred politicans, and a make-work project in some areas that have unemployment issues .

The cost /MW is startling, at $8E9 cad/900 MW= $8.8 E6 cad/MW compared to about $1.3 E6 cad/MW for gas fired combined cycle. And the cost adders are only just beginning. It only goes to show that anything is possible in politics. Similar bizarre economics for Hinkley point C and flammanville 3. The real objective has nothing to do with providing reliable electricity at competitve costs.

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick

 

[LionelHutz]

Wow, dams are just so bad, USA really should dynomite the Hoover dam and let the water flow uncontrolled again.

 

[1503-44]

Yeah, its bone dry in Mexico.

 

[1503-44]

Right. Dams are usually built for water supply collection and storage, irrigation and flood control purposes. If they can make a hydro gen out of it, the mfgr sector can feed too, then industrial power consumers move in. Hydro is the bonus feature.

 

[cvg]

hydro-electric is such a terrible technology, we need to pour a lot more money into carbon based (petroleum, gas, coal) based energy production so that we can recharge our batteries...

 

[waross]

Not a lot of the "Dams are bad" comments are particularly applicable to site "C".
1. The W.A.C. Bennett dam was primarily intended for generation.
2. I am amused by the conflicting positions on flood control;

A. Dams are bad, the prevent silting of farmland and encourage the wasting of river deltas. Funny, I thought that the spring freshets did a lot of damage to the deltas but I may be wrong.​

B.Dams are good, they prevent flooding.​

3. Loss of farm land.

Site flooded about two square miles of cultivated land and about four and one half square miles of grazing leases.​

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[bimr]

Watch the PBS video on the environmental effects of dams.

Europe's New Wild - Europe's Amazon

 

[btrueblood]

bimr,

Your referenced site itself cites zero actual scientific references and presents no data, just statements without verification.

Fish counts prior to the dams being built are anecdotal at best, there was no way to determine fish passage except by counting the number of fish caught, and even that was difficult because a major fishery (Native Americans) were never historically required to report fish catches. Fish counts actually rose to never before seen levels in the 90's (long after all the Columbia river dams were built). 6PPD did not become a commonly used antioxidant for tires until approximately a decade later. Removal of dams on the Snake river will not necessarily improve salmon runs, there are a lot of other factors contributing. One of the worst factors is that annual fish catches reported in the Pacific for all salmon types has reached a peak in the last several years. Key word in that last sentence is "reported" -- we don't really know how many fish are being caught illegally. Want to save the salmon? Stop eating them.

 

[1503-44]

The salmon flea is not helping the situation. It is affecting farmed salmon, due to the high density of the fish packed into the pens. It is difficult to find wild salmon outside of Norway. Most all here are farmed and the price has risen a lot over the last 5 yrs. Wild salmon must be really high now. I think it is catch and release only in Galicia and all over Spain now.

 

[dik]

There's enough anecdotal data that this is happening, with or without studies... I'm reasonably confident the sun will set in the evening and rise in the morning without reading about it...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[bimr]

There are plenty of studies, one just has to look. None of the studies are reporting any improvement, but instead are reporting on an ecological emergency.

"Wild salmon and steelhead are iconic of wildlife, of indigenous Northwest lifestyles, of the streams they spawn in, of the ocean they spend half their lives in. Wild Pacific salmon stand for the Pacific Northwest.

They also stand for our present ecological emergency, what scientists term the Sixth Great Extinction, caused by global warming, invasive species and habitat degradation.

The United Nations Convention on Biological Diversity states that the world’s ecosystems are at risk of “rapid degradation and collapse” unless “swift, radical and creative action” is taken. Species-extinction discourse is embroiled in a numbers game, to wit: How many species are there? What is a normal rate of extinction? How far above a normal rate have we veered? It seems that dozens of species go extinct every day, at least a thousand times the normal rate.

In the Pacific Northwest, 19 populations of wild salmon and steelhead are listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act. On the Skagit these include chinook and steelhead. These are, of course, extant runs. Salmon have already gone extinct in 40 percent of their historical range."

Smithsonian

 

[miningman]

The sky is falling!!! The sky is falling!!!!!!! But then again I always did prefer a good steak rather than a lump of fish