BSMET vs. BSME 1

[SuperSaiyan2Gohan]

Greetings all,

I am currently a 20 year-old sophomore attending school at a university in Little Rock, Arkansas. I am working towards a B.S in Mechanical Engineering Technology at this university. A few weeks ago, I started looking into possibly transferring to the University of Arkansas' main campus, which is located in Fayetteville, Arkansas, approximately 3 hours away from Little Rock. This is certainly possible with minimal loss in credits since I completely ignored the BSMET curriculum and took Calculus 1-3 instead of applied Calculus, Differential Equations, General Chemistry 1 & 2, and Calculus-based Physics 1-2 instead of Algebra-based Physics 1 & 2. Looking at my situation, I have about 2 years left to graduate from either the BSMET program or the BSME program.

Here's when I ran into some problems. I have enough funding from my scholarships to cover 3 semesters at the BSME program without taking any loans, but my last semester at the BSME program will have to come completely out of my pocket (approximately $2,500 for that semester). I'll also have to take 3 summer courses in order to graduate on time in the BSME program, whereas I won't have to take any summer courses if I stay in the BSMET program. I'll only have 1 class my senior semester if I stay in the BSMET program which will give me a decent amount of time to look for an internship/co-op before I graduate. Conversely, a graduate with a BSME looks way more appealing to graduate programs in engineering and prospective companies around the United States as opposed to someone who just has a BSMET. I'll also risk of decreasing my current 3.8 GPA in the BSMET program when I transfer over to the BSME program because of its tougher curriculum. Note: Graduates from BSMET programs in Arkansas cannot take the PE exam.

tl;dr : I know this has been asked countless times before, but is the BSME degree worth it? Are there any engineers out there that have a BSMET or a BSME that can fill me in on this? I love all aspects of engineering, both technical and theoretical sides.

Thanks for reading.

 

[TheTick]

You're fretting over $2500 and a summer of school?

 

[zdas04]

I'm an ME with a P.E. Since I started my business in 2003 I've made some pretty good money (approaching $3 million gross for a 1-man company), not to mention 23 years drawing a pretty nice salary before going out on my own. I couldn't have started this business without a P.E. I really hate that my alma mater is even offering the BSMET. Move to Fayetteville, it is a nice town. Spend the stinking $2500. Get a degree that (if you decide to, most ME's don't) allows you the option of sitting for the P.E. exam. This should be one of the simplest decisions of your life.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

Law is the common force organized to act as an obstacle of injustice Frédéric Bastiat

 

[tygerdawg]

Generally speaking, the MET does not have the rigor, depth, or respect commanded of the ME. Technology versus Engineering.

$2500...phooey. Chump change. Anybody with enough drive & initiative can find a job (or two) that will allow you to accumulate that much. It may involve long hours of hard, sweaty, unpleasant work that will help you appreciate the ME that much more. Among my more lucrative (and quite unpleasant) jobs were oilfield pipeyard laborer and tugboat deckhand out in the Gulf.

"Graduate on time" is not all it's cracked up to be. When I had a choice of busting my hump and "graduating on time" at minimum cost or spreading it out over a Summer & Fall semester, costing extra money, but having time to actually enjoy life for the first time, I spread it out. And had the money to afford to. One of the best life decisions I ever made.

Think about it. You'll have ~45+ years of active employment in front of you to make up that extra money.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[IRstuff]

So, the choice is to party hearty for one summer and pay for that summer the rest of your life, or crank it down for one summer and enjoy the fruits of your summer labors for the rest of your life.

Is this really a debatable choice here?

I live in a state with industrial exemption, and there is no PE license for what I do, not that any of my customers would even care. But, I've interviewed those with less than a full BSxE, and they come in for interviews carrying a stack of well-worn certificates and awards, hoping that it'll make up for the lack of a full engineering degree, but it rarely does.

BTW, you should have been looking for an internship 9 months ago, not later. Everything you can put on a resume that's discipline-related are stepping stones to the final goal. At this point in my son's college path, he had already gone through 3 different internships. Two paid nearly nothing, but the cachet of the second chump change salaried internship lead to a cream of the crop internship which lead to a guaranteed job offer upon graduation whose salary is definitely not chump change.

TTFN
faq731-376

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[zdas04]

Also a non-mainstream degree sucks. My undergrad degree is BSIM (Industrial Management). Until I got my MSME, every conversation about education started out with me being defensive ("I know it was in the school of business, but I took all the IE courses plus I took economics from Economists instead of Engineers") and everyone blowing my business degree off. Everyone has an idea what a BSME is. No one even cares what an BSMET is (sounds like it is from an add in the back of TV Guide).

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

Law is the common force organized to act as an obstacle of injustice Frédéric Bastiat

 

[Tmoose]

I had to get my degree going to school nights. Graduated 1984.
UMAss Lowell only offers BSMET in their "Continuing education" program (night school).

I took and passed the EIT exam upon graduating, and could have taken the PE exam, but would only after accumulating 8 years experience, and submitting at least 1 lb of example calculations and whatnot.

The 8 years flew by, and by then employers seeemed more interested in my experience. One hiring boss said he placed more value on the fact I persevered and put myself thru school.

I would recommend getting the "real" degree.

 

[bcd]

Hey,

For what its worth, I have a BSMET. It did not hinder my career at all because once you start work, it's what you do and how well you do it that sets the ceiling. Of course it depends upon the company you work for and if getting a PE is important.

But, if I was you, I would make the effort and go for BSME. Mainly because you do not want to look back at some point later in life and possibly regret not going for it. The money is insignificant. Its peanuts compared to what you will earn in your career.

 

[handleman]

If you're worried about the money and your GPA, I would STRONGLY recommend you look for a year coop between your junior and senior year. Coops make pretty good bank, and the year of work experience looks much better on your resume. If you ain't got the grades AND you ain't got the coop, you most likely ain't gettin' an interview with me.

-handleman, CSWP (The new, easy test)

 

[tbuelna]

What business sector do you wish to work in?

In aerospace a PE is usually not a big help. What would be much more beneficial is becoming proficient with the software applications used by the aerospace industry. Learn CATIA V5, NASTRAN/PATRAN, ANSYS, etc, since a prospective employer will not need to train you on these systems. And intern with a couple of the major OEMs like Boeing, LM, or NG if possible. It is very helpful to learn the specific engineering procedures these top tier companies each use, such as configuration management, product data management, etc. If the big prime contractors use a particular software tool, all of their suppliers must also use the same software tools. They will all readily hire someone that has proven experience with their internal engineering procedures and processes.

Good luck to you.

 

[RossABQ]

A BSME can get any job a BSMET is qualified for, but a BSMET cannot get many jobs where a BSME is required. You are likely tripling your opportunities. Aim high, not low.

 

[SuperSaiyan2Gohan]

tygerdawg,

$2,500? Chump change? I beg to differ, my good sir.
I'll have you know that I come from a very economically disadvantaged family. $2,500 is the difference between eating well for a good portion of the school year or starving until you're at the brink of insanity. Even so, I guess it couldn't hurt to take out a loan for my last semester in undergrad.

handleman,

I would love to look for a co-op, but graduating on time is what I'm ultimately aiming for. I'm hoping to graduate during the spring season of 2016 and I'm afraid that if I were to get a co-op before then, it would only delay my anticipated graduation date. You do have some viable points, though.

tbuelna,

Aerospace, aerospace, aerospace. :3
To work in the aerospace industry is an absolute dream. Just imagining what advancements the engineering community will make in the next 30 years in the aerospace industry makes my knees shake with excitement! Working for Lockheed Martin, Boeing, or NASA during such a time would a pleasant experience.
I'm also very interested in thermal/fluid systems design. There's a never-ending rush to design the perfect thermal system for lots of applications/machinery, so that industry demands a large amount of engineers to partake in research.

Back to my point: My aspirations after undergrad is to get into the University of Texas at Austin's Masters in Mechanical Engineering program since they do have a specialized Thermal/Fluid Systems program for their graduate students. Sadly, I don't think BSMET graduates can gain access into their program; I'll have to take 3 semesters of undergraduate classes before being admitted into their graduate program if I were to apply with a BSMET. It's not impossible to make it with a BSMET, but it certainly is a bit more difficult.

 

[SuperSaiyan2Gohan]

I still have about 2 weeks to decide whether I'm going for the BSME or the BSMET. Thanks to everyone who has presented their opinion. It certainly helps to hear advice from REAL engineers in the industry, not just academic advisers.

 

[zdas04]

If you make this decision based on money you will regret it all of your life. Is that simple enough for you. The difference in your earning potential over your life between the two programs is probably on the order of $2.5 million. If you have to pay credit card rates on the money and work a 40 hour/week job in Fayetteville that is a small price to pay. $2,500 really is chump change regardless of your circumstances.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

Law is the common force organized to act as an obstacle of injustice Frédéric Bastiat

 

[tbuelna]

Making an extra effort to get into an ME post grad program at U of T Austin is a great idea. There are many aerospace OEMs in the state like Lockheed-Martin and Bell Helicopter in DFW, or the numerous NASA contractors around JSC in Houston. Specializing in thermal/fluids is definitely a good choice if you want to work in aerospace engineering. As I noted, the best thing you can do to ensure getting a good job after graduating is to get internships with big aerospace OEMs.

 

[IRstuff]

You may not be worrying about this at the moment, but in the US, you'd need about $5-$10 million in assets to retire comfortably, or you'll have to survive on Social Security. The higher earning potential is with the BSME.

TTFN
faq731-376

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[tygerdawg]

(Thank you for your excellent manners.)

All of that may well be. So what? So was I. Don't assume you're anybody's victim, and don't limit yourself.

- Thomas Edison[/I]]

I have found that there is work hiding under every bush for those who put forth the effort to find it.

Thanks, Dave, for the validation.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[Dougt115]

When I started in college I was going for a math degree. IN my sophomore year I switched to Mechanical. I plowed through school paying my own way with grounds keeper jobs, it paid the bills. I did not get an intern or any other technical jobs while in college, thought it would slow me down. Upon graduation I did not get a job for TWO years in the engineering fields. Times had changed and the market was way down. Competition for new hires included engineers with +5years of experience to my 0.

Get and intern or similar job. Even if it slows you down for a year it is more than worth it. Plus you will learn what engineers really do not just what you think they do.

As for working at Lockheed, they prize experience over education. The degree and experience you have when you get hired sets your future at Lockheed. Completion of my Masters got me no benefits so I moved on. But yes there are some exciting programs a Lockheed that I would have loved to work on.

Side note many companies will help pay for tuition of higher education. My Masters was fully paid for by Lockheed. I guess they want to improve the employees just not pay more for the improvements.

 

[Tunalover]

I started out in an EET program at a community college, naively believing that the credits would transfer to a four-year EE program. This was compounded by the fact that my adviser was a business instructor and didn't know the difference between EET and EE and advised me to take the EET courses. To make a long story short, I wasted a semester doing courses that would not transfer. I ended up changing over to the Pre-Engineering program then transferring into a BSME program at a university. I'm glad I did because very few people in management and HR believe the BSMET program is anywhere close to the BSME program. And for good reason: the BSMET degree lacks the depth and rigor of the BSME degree. Go for the BSME degree!

Tunalover

 

[DonovanB]

I haven't thought much about this topic in awhile, but it came to mind today. I was watching Apollo 13, was thinking that at least a few of those engineers majored in the old school engineering that is now known as engineering technology. Faulty insulation aside, they seemed to do OK. When I googled BSMET vs BSME today, it seems like the questions and answers are still the same as when I was worried about them. I figured I'd write down my story, in the hopes in might help someone make a decision down the road.

The standard answer about how a straight ME is better usually comes from those with a straight ME, probably from schools that don't offer an ET. Their advice is not wrong, btw. If you have a choice and the academic ability, go ME. But in my experience you will not be a nurse vs a doctor. That's bogus. Do a job search for a technologist. You won't find any titles or ads for that. Also keep in mind the folks that review your resume, at least initially are liberal arts types. Even a ASMET would mystify them in a technical conversation.

I've been working as an engineer for 18 years now. I have designed automation and robotics for manufacturing, chemical processing equipment, process engineer for vacuum tubes (seriously), designed pharmacy automation, knee surgery frames, satellite actuators, laser welding stations for defibrillators, rf testers, disposable diagnostic cartridges, and spectrometers. I am listed on six patent applications, too.

I was a poor excuse for a high school student in the late 80's. My prospects and finances for a four year college were nonexistent. I had worked PT in a grocery store through high school and went FT after high school for a year. The pay sucked and I decided to go to the local community college. MET seemed like the most interesting thing there. I worked 30+ hours a week and finished my AAS in three years. I got a co op job in the third year in a valve actuator r&d lab. I observed that day to day the ASMET tore down test units while the BSMET designed the test equipment. So I transferred into a BS program at ODU. It took me another three years to finish that degree. I had to repeat several courses that were deemed too simple. It is notable that the teachers at com college were way better than those at ODU. I took the EIT twice and passed on the second attempt.

I started work and went from $25k/year to mid 90's currently. I've had consulting work where I made $40/hour to $75/hr.

My wife is a scientist, and we have moved around a few times, either moving for her job or mine. While in central PA in '02, I stopped by the local Penn State campus and found out about a Master of Engineering program called Engineering Science. I was provisionally accepted (not a great undergrad student either...) into the program and got my M Eng in '04. Can't say it helped me very much, but the mechanics course do give me some gee whiz trivia once in awhile. One interesting observation is this was the first course work where I had to create an equation to solve a problem. Like statically indeterminate beams. Not sure why ET's learn calc but not how to apply it. If the description of the program was totally accurate, we could have learned very basic calc to solve higher level problems... The math I took in grad school was incredibly complex, but similarly we didn't do much that was practical with it.

In 2008 I applied to take the PE in North Carolina. Took me two tries to pass. I had to learn at least a cursory knowledge in HVAC systems, organic chemistry and vibrations. The questions on the test were pretty basic, and I was able to figure them out. Again, not sure anyone cares that I put a PE after my name. My stamp has never been inked, and considering the risks vs financial rewards, probably never will. A couple thousand vs a lawsuit doesn't seem wise. Studying for the PE helped me solve complex problems, for example, in a mixed mode stress problem you can usually figure out the biggest risk, solve for that and move on. No need to worry about thermal expansion on a bridge joint when the thing is loaded with tractor trailers, steel and concrete. It might matter if you're sending something into outer space, but most of us aren't designing for a FOS < 1.0!

I know I can't be licensed in SC, but that doesn't keep me up at night. Pretty sure I could get easily licensed anywhere else, except CA maybe. Like I said, I don't use it. It was a personal goal.

In 18 years I've been talked down to three times based on my degree. They all stand out in my memory, but the worst was a good ol boy realtor in SC. He was supposed to take me and my wife around to see houses during a recruiting trip for a company that was interviewing me. Turned out he was on the PE board. Told me to start over and get a real engineering degree. He didn't get the job as our realtor, btw.

At this point in my career, my employers don't care. As long as I can solve problems and turn in designs on time, I'm golden. I don't make a killing, but my pay is steady. Even when the economy turns sour, I can do contract work and maintain. I can afford to play race car driver on the weekends, and can use the company equipment to make race car parts, after hours. It's a good career.

If I had my shit together in HS and the money, I would have gotten a BSME. That 7 year plan cost me some money over the course of my career. That's the only reason I regret my choice. However, my road was the only way I knew to go, and I'm glad I did it. I find it interesting- was in a frat at ODU; of those guys, me and another "real" engineer are doing what we went to school to do. The rest sell things or some other soft skill. It's probably a better financial result, but I enjoy designing and building things.

Like I said, hope that helps someone make a decision down the road.