Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
Balcony's came off.
linked to this news source as it has some decent sized pictures.
Relatively new development.
linked to this news source as it has some decent sized pictures.
Relatively new development.
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building failure in UK 1
- Thread starter Alistair_Heaton
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In looking at the pictures, it appears there was a layer of concrete applied over the first one. The lower one has pink paint on the upper surface. And there's concrete on top of it.
Or so it appears to me.
Again, a reminiscence of Champlain Towers, and their pool deck.
spsalso
PS: What could that piece of angle iron be for--the one with the bolt tabs added onto it?
Or so it appears to me.
Again, a reminiscence of Champlain Towers, and their pool deck.
spsalso
PS: What could that piece of angle iron be for--the one with the bolt tabs added onto it?
TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
In the photos posted I don't see anything that would lead me to believe corrosion is a factor in this failure.
It appears that the upper balcony was improperly constructed. I don't see indications of an upper rebar mat. If a crack opened up, corrosion would finish off the rebar.
The lower balconey, though looking sketchy, was likely demolished when struck by the upper one. Better images of the upper level would be helpful.
How do you advise the owner/occupants for a path forward?
The lower balconey, though looking sketchy, was likely demolished when struck by the upper one. Better images of the upper level would be helpful.
How do you advise the owner/occupants for a path forward?
- Thread starter
- #25
Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
can anyone see any brick keying on the balcony walls to main walls or brick ties into the main load bearing?
LittleInch
Petroleum
I thought those brown marks were brick ties, but I now think they just mortared up to the wall....
A common number seems to be 60 psf for things like this. I reckon those balconies are no more than 5 ft square being generous so 25 ft2 x 60 = 1500lbs or 700 kg. I reckon that double brick wall and the extra tiles are at least 1500kg.
Really bad design IMHO.
The others will need supports underneath as elbow braces or demolished and installation of Juliet balconies instead.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
A common number seems to be 60 psf for things like this. I reckon those balconies are no more than 5 ft square being generous so 25 ft2 x 60 = 1500lbs or 700 kg. I reckon that double brick wall and the extra tiles are at least 1500kg.
Really bad design IMHO.
The others will need supports underneath as elbow braces or demolished and installation of Juliet balconies instead.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
- Thread starter
- #27
Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
I suspect the scree layer won't be in the load plan either.
Maybe the original load plan was for metal railings. And then the architect changed it to brick walls and didn't run the cycle again.
The rest of the building owners I suspect will be in for a load of hurt as well, Building control inspections of the other balcony's and remedial work.
Maybe the original load plan was for metal railings. And then the architect changed it to brick walls and didn't run the cycle again.
The rest of the building owners I suspect will be in for a load of hurt as well, Building control inspections of the other balcony's and remedial work.
- Thread starter
- #28
Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
Wonder what work was being done on the other side.
Just noticed pretty major scaffolding. Should help with inspections and remedial work though....
See if that works. The street view shows it prior to failure in reasonable detail.
Just noticed pretty major scaffolding. Should help with inspections and remedial work though....
See if that works. The street view shows it prior to failure in reasonable detail.
LittleInch
Petroleum
These are the highest resolution images I can find
building turns out to be >30 years old.
From what I can see the top 2nd floor balcony had a large amount of extra flooring / fill added at some point, maybe to enhance drainage fall which seems to be all into one corner against the wall about double the thickness of the original slab with its weedy reinforcement.
Amazing it stood that long.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
building turns out to be >30 years old.
From what I can see the top 2nd floor balcony had a large amount of extra flooring / fill added at some point, maybe to enhance drainage fall which seems to be all into one corner against the wall about double the thickness of the original slab with its weedy reinforcement.
Amazing it stood that long.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
- Thread starter
- #30
Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
the roof does look 30 years old.
- Thread starter
- #32
Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
I bow to your experience sir. Thanks for pointing the issue out.
[ul]
[li]April 2009 (as far into the past street view can look at this address) the balcony is same configuration as present.[/li]
[li]The scaffold is not present in March 2019[/li]
[li]Images captured in Oct 2020 and April 2021 show the scaffold.[/li]
[li]The scaffold is gone by June 2023[/li]
[/ul]
Construction Management News "Balconies collapse at seafront block of apartments in East Sussex" 11 Dec 2023. "Prince of Wales Court was developed by Croudace Homes in the late 1980s."
So not all that old.
[li]April 2009 (as far into the past street view can look at this address) the balcony is same configuration as present.[/li]
[li]The scaffold is not present in March 2019[/li]
[li]Images captured in Oct 2020 and April 2021 show the scaffold.[/li]
[li]The scaffold is gone by June 2023[/li]
[/ul]
Construction Management News "Balconies collapse at seafront block of apartments in East Sussex" 11 Dec 2023. "Prince of Wales Court was developed by Croudace Homes in the late 1980s."
So not all that old.
Paperandpencil
Structural
The scaffolding may have been provided to enable timber to be removed from the underside of the balconies. I think that the report page 1 should say timber slats and not 'slates'.
[URL unfurl="true"]https://res.cloudinary.com/engineering-com/image/upload/v1702480433/tips/BH2023_01252-PLANNING_STATEMENT-19000529_fsmgfj.pdf[/url]
[URL unfurl="true"]https://res.cloudinary.com/engineering-com/image/upload/v1702480433/tips/BH2023_01252-PLANNING_STATEMENT-19000529_fsmgfj.pdf[/url]
Balconies are notoriously unreliable; there was infamous incident where several students died when the apartment balcony collapsed: along with ET's thread hread507-389528
Waterproofing is very difficult to maintain, but critical to ensuring structural integrity
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
Waterproofing is very difficult to maintain, but critical to ensuring structural integrity
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
- Thread starter
- #36
Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
You should see the ones in ex soviet built buildings where I am.
They enclose them to boot and turn them into an extra room.
They enclose them to boot and turn them into an extra room.
- Thread starter
- #39
Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
Seems to be the main issue with the aerated concrete panels problem as well and lack of maint and water proofing.
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