Buildings' fire controller system

[snorkles]

Hi. Our companies' building has a 6 year old fire detection system. It's outfitted with a PLC that has addressable heats and smokes also some call points and rate of rise heats with dip switches. These devices are all connected in parallel, on a 15 volt closed loop circuit. Can someone suggest a good-easy to understand reference book on how all this communication between devices and controller gets accomplished ? e.g. radio frequency or digital.
Thx

 

[ScottyUK]

Kidde's system uses a programmable 'analogue addressable' system. I've not been able to determine more than that up to now - I guess it is proprietary.


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I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

 

[rbulsara]

which country are you in...?

Are you trying to learn how to make a fire alarm system or you want to use it for your benefit. If you tell us what you want to accomplish, you may get a better answer.

One thing I know that it is not radio frequency. It work similar to a PLC as you desribed, but not a true PLC.


Mean while try visiting websites of leading fire alarm manufacturing firms, Simplex, Notifier, Edwards, Siemens (Pyrotronics). Etc. Search web...

 

[jraef]

If you mean that these 2 parallel wires are the only things going to/from your controller to the sensors, it sounds as if you may have what is called a "Dupline" system made by Carlo Gavazzi. AFAIK they are the only ones selling this technology. It works by a system of pulse counting for addressing and data transmission, a crude precursor to serial communications, but very rugged in noisy environments without needing shielded cable. I have never heard of anyone using a Dupline system for fire alarm controls, but I never liked it much anyway so I probably wouldn't have listened!

Here is their website, but to be honest it is difficult to navigate if you just want to find general information.

http://gavazzi-automation.com/ac/index.asp

Eng-Tips: Help for your job, not for your homework Read faq731-376

 

[waross]

Hello snorkles
This may help.

http://www.firelite.com/main.html

respectfully

 

[snorkles]

Yes rbulsara ,PLC was stated in error, the proper terminology is fire controller manufactured by many for Tyco. As our company refuses to take advantage of vender sponsored training ,we elect. tech's must often OJT on these systems and quite often visit & question the pro's @ ENG-TIPS Forums. Troubleshooting and maintaining might come easier after reading the latest "Fire Alarm Signaling Systems" by Burkowski and O'Laughlin . Anyone heard of it?
Thanks again all !

-S

 

[rbulsara]

snorkles:

Yours seems to be an adminstrative problem than technical. Firstly all modern fire alarm system are complex and required factory trained/authorised technicians to work and troubleshoot them. Six years is a long time in this fast chaning electronic world. If you do not have a contract with the manufacurere or authoized service organization, the mystery around the existing system will only keep getting deeper. You need to keep up with fairly regular software and hardware upgrades to stay current on availability of parts and service.

I would try to find a way to convince the powers to be in your company to pay for the services of the manufactuer and if desired send your technicians for formal training.

 

[rbulsara]

By the way I should state that the technogogy of setting the initiating device addresses using the dip-switches is long considered obsolete or old.

 

[ScottyUK]

"technogogy"? Like demagogue, but with a scientific bias?

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I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

 

[rbulsara]

Scotty:
Now I have to look up demagogue..in wikipedia??

 

[rbulsara]

Scotty:

OK..found it..demagouge= "a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power"

I would say, that would be an exaggrated allegation..but at least in the USA, my observation is true. Dip switches are the things of early 1990's. Now a days devices are addressed using a laptop and a communication link to the fire control panel. In fact most fire alarm specs (in the USA) are written disallowing the use of dip switches for setting addresses.

 

[rbulsara]

ohh forgot my smiley face:

 

[ScottyUK]

I've never had a DIP switch refuse to communicate with my fingers / terminal screwdriver / biro, but I have lost count of the number of times when my laptop has refused to talk to some programmable device. Sometimes progress isn't always a forward step!


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I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

 

[rbulsara]

Scotty:

That is one way of looking at it. However I am not saying one is better than other, but that is the trend in the industry here.

I have worked in fire alarm industry too for a while, and I can tell you technicians here hate those dip switches as they pose other issues while troubleshooting a large system, not least of which is to reach out each detector to verify its correct address setting etc.

Other subtle reason to disallow dipswitches is to keep out "low end" products being presented as "equal" when a true multiplexed or digital communication based system is intended. And yes in the USA it is considered "trendy" to go with latest and expensive stuff even if some old technology may work just fine in the eyes of a hands-on type technically knowledgeable person.

Cheers!!