Burning PCBs

[diamondjim]

We live near the Ravenna Arsenal in Ohio
and they have old buildings that were
lathered with paint containing PCBs.
They want to test burn one of these buildings
and monitor the output. The nearest
residence is two miles away. They plan on
adding wood skid or pallets to increase the
temperature of the burn. The building also
contain residual explosives and lives were
lost at other sites trying to dismantle
similar buildings, thus they want to try this
method. Any great concern or better control
suggestions? Thanks for any help.

 

[orenda1168]

Diamondjim:

Further to my comments about this issue on the Ordnance Forum, another thought for consideration: Ravenna Arsenal might consider contacting the Technical Escort Unit at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Maryland (sorry, I've long since misplaced the phone number or address) for assiatance. This detachment is uniquely qualified to handle chemical toxics and explosives, and the disposal of these materials.

Regards,

Orenda

 

[diamondjim]

Thanks for the advice.
Pulled up several other website where the
military has tried to do this in other
communities last year and evidently the
communities were able to stop or prevent
the burning. It is hard to believe that
a wrecking ball or mechanical system could
not be used.

 

[orenda1168]

Diamondjim:

As a former member of Tech Escort in the late 50's - early 60's, I can tell you that the principal means we employed to dispose of waste/obsolete chemical/biological warfare agents, low-level explosives and the like was open-pit burning. This, for all of the now-obvious reasons, is no longer acceptable. There are procedures that I am aware of that the Military has employed in recent history to dispose of such comtaminated material in a safe and environmentally acceptable fashion.

One would think that the Ravenna Arsenal hierarchy would put forth the effort to contact those in DOD who can guide them to the organizations (i.e Technical Escort) capable of handling this.

Regards,

Orenda

 

[diamondjim]

Orenda,
Thanks, I will pass this along to the
Environmental Council here in Portage
County. The Army is cleaning up the
site so it can transfer ownership to
the National Guard. I think they are
trying to take the cheapest way out.

 

[moltenmetal]

Note that the "do nothing" option is not zero risk either.

People in Ste Basile la Grande in Quebec discovered that one.

PCBs were being stored because of the not-in-my-backyard attitudes toward incineration and just about anything/everything that anyone tries to do with PCBs aside from just storing them. So stored they remained- until the warehouse caught fire. Poor residents were exposed to probably thousands of times the quantity of PCBs and their decomposition products as they would have been if 1950s incineration technology had been used to incinerate them...

A properly monitored test burn is better than an accidental burn by a long shot. Keep that in mind when deciding whether to get NIMBY on these people.

 

[orenda1168]

Moltenmetal:

Having been ther and done that, controlled removal and destruction, whether by incineration or otherwise, by qualified personnel is far better than risking a "test burn" without (presumably) the ability to contol emissions and other potential hazards, and the risks associated therewith.

As I've earlier stated, there are simply better ways of handling these problems....there are qualified personnel and procedures for this situation.

Orenda

 

[brac]

I've been involved with a number of open burns that were necessary due to explosives in the buildings. Air monitoring during the burns never indicated that PCB's were released. I understand that in this case the Army has scientific facts that PCB's will again not be released. Better to go with facts than emotion.

 

[diamondjim]

The Army says that the PCBs will be converted
to dioxins and furons? during the burn. What they
do not know is how they will be spread out and do
want to monitor what does fallout. I do not know
how many monitors that whey will be using for the
ten mile down wind area. They are also going to
wait for weather conditions suitable for the burns.
They also claim that if the burn is not of suitable
temperature dioxins will be released. So I am using
their info and not panicing yet. We think that they
have been strait forward but wonder why they did not
monitor other sites. There are high levels of PCBs
in much of the painted buildigs and pipes whithin
the buildings.

 

[diamondjim]

brac,
you might want to check out the following
and comment on it.

http://www.cswab.org/burningpcbs.html

 

[hazmat56]

Since PCBs are known to be present, some testing was conducted at the site(s). At what levels (PPM) are the PCBs? The toxic substance control act mandates prescribed actions depending on the level of PCBS (e.g. contaminated articles, PCB containing or PCBs). At a minimum open burning (farmers, and fire fighters exempt) as a method of disposal has been outlawed through the Clean Air Act.

 

[diamondjim]

More than 20 times the limit.