Buy a House Decontaminated of Asbestos?

[Logan82]

Hi,

I have seen an offer to buy a house built in 1971 that was decontaminated of asbestos in Canada. I have seen several postings of houses built in 1970, without any mention of asbestos.

Is it usual to find house built around this time with asbestos? Is this one special because despite being built in 1971, it was decontaminated of asbestos unlike the other houses?

Is the asbestos decontamination process efficient typically? Are the small quantity of asbestos remaining in the house after decontamination typically sufficient to cause health risks?

My thought so far is to stay away from a house that was isolated with asbestos, but I would like to know your opinion. I know each decade had their house building problems.

 

[dik]

It was common. It was also common to use vermiculite (a type of asbestos) to insulate. Our old home, when I was a child, was built in 1913 (from a newpaper, found), the original wood chip insulation was likely located within the first 1' of the wall; it had settled that much. My dad topped up the walls and the attic with vermiculite... it was a common upgrade back then. It was free flowing and filled nearly all voids.

Asbestos was common insulation on pipes and old furnace boilers. When I removed the asbestos from my earlier home from the boiler and pipes, I wetted it with water and detergent and wrapped it in plastic and then removed it. I then cut out the heating pipes (for CI radiators) with an oxyacetylene torch. That was my biggest concern. I then installed a new gas furnace. (A homeowner didn't need to have a gas furnace installer to come in. Rules may have changed since.) The family was out of the house for a couple of days, and I only used a ventilator... no ill effects. The gas company came in and inspected it before they turned it on, and things were fine.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[LittleInch]

A lot depends on the type of asbestos.

Solid asbestos cement tiles are not to o bad as long as they don't start breaking up and releasing the fibres. Loose fibre blankets like insulation around pipes is far worse but if removed by official personnel should be fine. Just don't disturb the adrift and generate fibres.

It takes years to develop an issue after portioned exposure but it is not nice stuff, realistically your risk as a home owner is very low. Just be suspicious of unknown fibre blankets.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Tomfh]

Agree it all depends on the type of asbestos.

Our 1970s Australian house has fibro asbestos in various places (cement sheeting containing asbestos). Provided it’s not disturbed it’s no problem. One day I’ll remove it. It’s easy enough to remove sheet asbestos. Fluffy asbestos - another story. There was a company called Mr Fluffy in Australia 50 years ago that pumped fluffy asbestos insulation into walls and roofs. It affected many families who were exposed to it. I believe all the affected houses were eventually acquired by government and demolished.

 

[dik]

and Canada used to provide a large amount of the world's asbestos...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Brad805]

This will vary by region. The 1970 home I grew up in did not have asbestos, but we have worked on a ton of old commercial projects where we have found asbestos in all sorts of products. I believe much of the residential reno work involving asbestos is done by the low bidder. In those cases it is unlikely that all follow the rules. Worksafe BC has had a blitz on these projects of late involving contaminants, so I expect that may change in our area as contractors are fined. We work with a specialty company that does all the abatement. It can be a huge cost, but it depends on the level of contaminants and how friable they are. If someone wants to find out if they have an asbestos problem you need to hire an environmental company that specializes in this work. Your typical home inspection is unlikely to find this.

 

[Craig_H]

Drywall in Canada was manufactured with asbestos until ~1972 (keep in mind that the drywall already manufactured continued to be sold for a couple of years). We tested the drywall in my own home (1972) and it's 1-5% asbestos. Not hard to deal with, but important to know about. As others have mentioned, common places to find it are attic insulation, pipe insulation, floor tile, masonry mortar and exterior parging/stucco. It was the "wonder material" of its time, somewhat similar to plastic products in our current markets (composite decking & trim, PEX piping, foam insulation, vinyl windows & siding, etc). Some day, future generations will look back on the waste & pollution the same way we look back on asbestos hazards.

 

[dik]

I suspect drywall is a real minor issue... the asbestos is so well encapsulated... except for renovation and demolition.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Craig_H]

I suspect drywall is a real minor issue

Exactly, not an issue except for during renovations. Even then, it is rather simple to keep it contained. Disposal is a real PITA though, my local landfill charges $800 no matter the quantity. Sucks when I'm removing about 50 sq.ft in a bathroom reno.

Regarding the question of whether small amounts of asbestos remain after removal, proper procedures for removing the high risk products (like vermiculite insulation, for example) often include spraying down a product that encapsulates the leftover fibers and glues them to whatever substrate they are lying on. The likelihood of having rogue asbestos lying around the home is dependent on the quality of the abatement job done... something that can be difficult to tell after the fact.

 

[dik]

I can't really reply to that... it like the half a dozen stray cats we had invading and tearing up our garbage... they went away...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[EdStainless]

How is the remediation documented? Is there a certificate from an licensed entity?
If so then I wouldn't worry.
The amount of asbestos (and its form) in vermiculite depends on where it was mined.
I grew up in house built in 56-57 in Michigan. We checked a few things over the years and never found any asbestos.
My guess is that at the time the house was built cheap and that meant skipping 'premium asbestos' products.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[dik]

In my case, like the cats, the presence was never documented... just common to the construction at the time.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[STrctPono]

Are they advertising this house as having been "decontaminated of asbestos" as a good thing or as if it is a disclosure?

 

[EdStainless]

Vermiculite isn't made of asbestos, but may contain it depending on where it is from. Since this is a mined product it can vary in composition a lot.
Vermiculite is still used in the vacuum insulated cryogenic liquid gas tanks. I have seen bags with a statement on them that it conforms to Std No XXX to be free from asbestos, or some such wording.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[JoshPlumSE]

It's pretty common with the age of the house. My house (built in 1972) has asbestos insulation wrapped around the HVAC ducts.

Every now and then my wife freaks out about it a bit and wants to get it removed. But, as long as we don't agitate it (i.e demo or remodel the HVAC ducts) then it won't get in the air and I don't think there is anything to worry about.

In fact, my opinion is that the most problematic thing we could do is try to remove it. If there was a license contractor removing it and certifying the removal, then I'd feel okay (provided that no one was living in the house at the time). But, it the folks who removed it were not professional and didn't follow all the proper safety precautions then I imagine misc dust and air in the house would have asbestos in them and could be problematic.

This may be what the OP is dealing with. If that were the case, what would make you comfortable living in that house? An excellent cleaning along with HEPA filters and such? Or, would something more be required?

 

[miningman]

All the above is essentially factual, coorect and applicable to anyone living in a residence built in the early 1970s. However the OP seems to be contemplating purchase of an affected building. IMO , dont walk away, run away as fast as you can. When trhe day comes that you want to sell it , none of us have any idea what the standards will be or what the likely local attitude to asbestos will be.

 

[phamENG]

Also worth noting that this post is from November. It was brought to life by FStephenMasek, who just joined the forum today, has only logged on twice, and has only replied to this thread. And the only reason he revived it, or so it seems, was to advertise for his book.

 

[FStephenMasek]

Advertise? Much more advise. A good practical asbestos book is something many people need, but none have been available. The Kindle version is even "free" for those who have Kindle Unlimited. I’ve received nothing but highly positive feedback from everyone who has read it. For example:

Dave Luce, consulting company owner: “Got mine - and read the whole thing today. Great book - thank you so much for making this. LOT of helpful info!”

Armando Ducoing, (Ecologics), training company owner: “I really like it, it is very concise and explanatory and covers most of the issues that are important for the professionals working in the asbestos industry...it is a very good book...well done”

John Galt, contractor / adjuster: “I’m extremely grateful that Stephen took the time to put his lifetime of experience and knowledge on the subject down in such a concise and accessible manner. If you are an adjuster, contractor, attorney, loss consultant, public adjuster, government official, etc. and you’re ever going to have to navigate the asbestos debacle this book is worth 100 times what you’ll pay for it. It’s definitely a labor of love because this is a semi obscure topic and it’s not like the author could hope to really be compensated for the time he clearly dedicated to this work. Great book, sits right next to my copy of Carpentry and Building Construction by Feirer and Hutchings which is another illustrated classic. I will definitely be recommending this book to my peers in the claims and construction fields. Amazingly useful and easy to navigate book, extremely satisfied with this purchase!”

 

[3DDave]

The main sufferers from asbestos were the ones handling it and being exposed to a high density of airborne fibers for months to years. The lawyers played this up and, my opinion, stampeded the herd. It's tough to argue that it's a positive in a house anymore, so there's nothing attractive about it; it seems like a perpetual drag on the property price, but the passing of the hot potato gets ugly if there are renovations or demolishing of the structure. I can foresee a simple enough remodel costing more than the market value of the house if it did not have asbestos.

For the latter I recall stories where companies are supposed to have full continuous water shower of the entire volume of the workspace which no one wants to do - working in a downpour. The story was some company spritzed the roof with a hose and then bulldozed the building and did whatever cleanup and ran like rabbits. I expect a conforming demolition would be 10X the price and no better a practical result. Once again workers are exposed to airborne asbestos.

It's difficult to imagine any extraction method that would be both practical and not surge the airborne levels by huge amounts. Anything easily disturbed to be airborne in normal house occupation would have stirred it out in the first decade. But breaking it up again? Putting it in trucks? Dumping it to be buried?

 

[FStephenMasek]

No such continuous water showers! The non-friable materials which will stay non-friable could remain and with adequate water mist from multiple directions, the building be demolished. Of course, the whole pile would then be asbestos waste. In some areas, the asbestos has to be removed before demolition, and it may just be less expensive in other places. I've seen buildings built in the 1970s with asbestos materials on every major surface, inside walls and ceilings, outside walls, floors, and the roof, plus piping and ducts.