Byspeed or Prima Zaphiro

[arnu]

Hello Everyone,
We are looking at purchasing a new laser and would appreciate
some advise. We are looking at a Byspeed 4.4kw and the Prima Zaphiro 5kw.We have an old Trumpf laser that we are cutting 2mm up to 16mm on it and we would like to cut 20mm on a new laser. The Bystronic has a great reputation and we have been told that they are mostly trouble free running. But we do like the thought of having 5kw of power and have been impressed with the prima, but will the Prima cut as well as the Bystronic in a few years time? Both are around the same price so any imput would be great.

 

[krugtech]

Get a bystar w a 4.4, not a byspeed.

Chris Krug

http://krugtech.com/

Maximum Up-time, Minimum BS

 

[HenryRollins]

What Krug said, seriously, get the Bystar. It is easier to maintain, i.e. Beam/mirror alignment, nozzle aligments, no need the have a lubrication cycle on the Bystar either.
-HR

 

[arnu]

Thanks for the feedback. I have looked at the Bystar but found the cutting speeds so much quicker on the byspeed.
Any thoughts on LVD Axel 4Kw ?

 

[krugtech]

The positioning speeds are faster on the byspeed but the cutting speed should be the same on a bystar for a given resonator as it's a function of power and beam quality. The Bystar head has better cooling so the lens will perform better and personally i would remove the adaptive optic (the $3000 mirror) and adjust the focus by the dial on the head. Those adaptive optics (none I've seen) never curve perfectly and the Bystar runs better wo it in my experience. The Byspeed MUST have an adaptive optic. Those fast positioning speeds are rough on the machine. The racks and rails on the Bystar rarely give trouble total neglect is needed to kill them, if set up properly they go 100,000+ hrs w a little cleaning and grease. The Byspeed spindle setup seems more prone to loosen up and some get a little shaky on the corners after a few years. Sometimes you have to retension the spindle, sometimes you have to replace the spindle.

Chris Krug

http://krugtech.com/

Maximum Up-time, Minimum BS

 

[HenryRollins]

This is where Krug and I differ on adaptive optics, in this case the Bystar. Bystronic adaptive optics work great if and only if it is calibrated properly by taking the time out to get the curve dialed in correctly. This is something few if any applications guys and install technicians do any more. Adaptive optics make changing focus positions faster and "on the fly" but a Bystar with out the adaptive optic is less maintenance and worry. Please keep in mind that you will have to calibrate the lens properly in order for the Bystar to work the same from the hot side ( closest to resonator) and the cold side (furthest point away from the resonator).
my .02 cents.
-HR

 

[Foostrap]

Hi Arnu,

Having worked for many years on LVD lasers, I can tell you the Axel is a rock solid machine, very strongly built. Just look at the thickness of the steel they use to build it, you could hit it with a forklift, it won't move. What is really cool on that machine is the shuttle table system they use; one table moves up and above the other one; very quick table change and the best part is: no hydraulics. Very simple system. And with some lasers getting a little too complicated today, simple is always good.
As far as acceleration and cutting speed, I agree with Krugtech; not that important on thicker material. Only if you do a lot of engraving, or if you intend to cut a lot of thin material with a lot of holes will the higher acceleration shine by cutting down the cycle time.
I would recommend you get some time studies done using some of your typical production parts, then ask to actually get a demo and see those parts being cut, then time them (don't trust time studies you get on paper, that's too easy to play with and conditions may not always be the same from one builder to another). Then you'll see if the added acceleration is really worth the money.

 

[arnu]

Krug & Henry, thanks for the advise on the bystar if we buy one i dont think i will play to much with mirrors but i will take that advise on board.Footstrap thanks for advise on the LVD
what i have seen is that it is a pretty robust machine not to fancy might suit us well. I have read that the fanuc laser's are reliable & very little downtime so any more advise on this machine would be appreciated.

 

[Foostrap]

Yes, the Fanuc resonator is very reliable and easy to work on. With minimum training, you could do your own maintenance. Being AC, it is also a lot safer. I guess you would be looking at either 4kW or 6kW. Their 4000iB is a very good resonator; lots of improvement compared to prior generations. For example cutting 1" mild steel with a 4000iB is a lot easier than on a 4000A. But I think they just came out with the 4000iC which is supposed to be able to cut at a much higher frequency; supposedly that should give you smoother cut quality; but I haven't seen it myself; that's just what I heard. It is also supposed to be "greener" with lower electrical consumption.

 

[krugtech]

I would not buy a CO2 laser from a company that did not build their own resonator. One of my customers has a Mazak, he had a tech in to service the machine under contract, the thing is, the tech was from Panasonic and he didn't know anything about Mazak, actually I think all he knew was optics, he couldn't even tell me if the resonator was CD or RF. Forget about asking him for help w anything but the optics.


About playing w the optics, you don't have to play w the optics on any Bystronic, they hold up really well. The point is if you want to play w the optics it's pretty easy on a Bystronic.

Chris Krug

http://krugtech.com/

Maximum Up-time, Minimum BS

 

[Foostrap]

The same could happen with any manufacturer. Getting the right guy on site has a lot to do with the phone troubleshooting prior to sending a guy in.

 

[palms]

Did you ever buy a laser? I work for Prima, so small commercial. The Zaphiro has a great resonator (we build in Massachusetts) and it has a magnetic turbine to greatly reduce maintenance. It has adaptive optics, BUT it is the Frame/Foundation that makes it a rather good laser. The base is a Monolithic design made from a Polymer Granite. It is essentiallly like a CMM machine. And, the resonator, control and frame are all one piece. That will give you a high quality cut as your resonator is not located on a separate slab (alignment and vibration issues) and the granite base absorbs vibration better than steel and it is impervious to temperature changes. I also sold the first one. Good Luck.

 

[arnu]

Yes we purchased a byspeed. It was a tough to decide which was the best machine for us but i think we got the right one.