Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm 2

[aws04]

Hi All,
We have 4.5 year old Bystronic Byspeed that
cut parts today that had slots more than 50mm off where they
were meant to be!.
We have cut runs of these parts at least 20 times before
no trouble. The sheet Clamps were on and the start and end of the outside contour is in the same place so the sheet is not moving during the cut.
It is on a row of holes that should be parallel to the x axis but they were shifting about 1mm per slots until the last one in the row was over 50mm out
- somtimes the next few holes are shifted across with the same amount error and then somtimes
the rest on the part with be back to the correct postions.the incremental shift can happen on other rows of holes
it doesn't always happen the same way sometimes the outside contour goes with it and runs off the sheet other times remainder of part is right. the gcode has been checked and is fine. the graphic of the part has the holes all straight not at an angle to the rest of the part
the error doesn't happen to every part cut and doesn't
shift exactly the same number / in same place each time
we have an error. an abort & restart from start will somtimes recut part correctly but next parts can go crazy again. I really have no confidence that this machine knows
what it is cutting. it has missed entire holes / part profiles in the past. It does not appear to monitor the path error. surely Amada, Trumph and Prima etc don't have these problems?
the x an y reinshaw linear encoders were replaced under wanranty 8 months ago due old ones being unsuitable for the application.
What should I do I don't trust anything I have been cutting to be correct anymore.

to view picture of part go to

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35190198@N05/

 

[IRstuff]

Flickr appears to be having a problem.

Nonetheless, shouldn't you contact your manufacturer?

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[msandoval]

IRStuff is correct. You should be contacting the manufacturer directly. I will try to send this post to the Vice President of Service so he can look into this.

One thing I can clearly tell you is that Amada, Trumpf, Prima, or any other OEM are far from perfect. I can tell you that I have seen a Trumpf TCL 3050 do some strange things at a local customer in the LA Area as well as some Amadas not living up to its expectations. If there is one thing Bystronic stands for is customer service and the quality of its products.

 

[msandoval]

Could you please send your contact information to the following e-mail address: nexba@yahoo.com

Thanks!

 

[aws04]

In fairness to our aurthorized seller / repair agent
they are 4 hours away in another country so we only get a vist twice a year at service time.
Our agent gets us to try different things to repeat or eliminate a fault before trying replacment boards etc. hopfully this means will only only have to buy the parts
we need.
So I have been told by our agent that Bystronic Singapore have suggested trying replacing all or some of these items: cnc card,servo drive(s), x y postron ? boards. All of this is about $15-20K USD which seems a bit over the top when
it could a reinshaw linear encoder or the wiring to the cnc
cabinet?
After a full shutdown and restart it only happened twice more on nightshift and did not repeat today.
It is nice to know that other brands do odd things as well!

thanks
aws04

 

[laserbyspeed]

Is best to clean very good the linear measuring system on the X and Y axes whit a dry cotton cloth at least once a week .
I have the same problem and it was cleared. Sometimes after finishing the nozzle calibration it was missing the next hole or even the contour of the part. About the holes offset I was every time with a caliper just for safety.
If you move the cutting bridge when is in service position up and down check the led if is flashing from green to red very easy (on normal operation should be a steady green)
If this is not helping try to call the service and change the linear measuring system with the new tipe which is more precise .
If you have another errors Please Post Them and we share Tips and Tricks I work only with Bystronic machines (Bystronic 4400w,BYSPEED 5200W ARC)

 

[IRstuff]

Is there no way to double check the program in the machine after it does the odd thing?

I would go with the cnc board first, since your problem is intermittent, but repeatable, which suggests a digital logic problem.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[aws04]

We already have new type of linear measuring system on our
machine - it was replaced about 6 months ago free of charge - I was instructed not to try cleaning it as per the old system which needed it done all the time. I was not aware of any "okay" green leds lights on the new system to check operation. It would be hard to say what part of the system was confused but I think it was as irstuff says more
likley the cnc card error of some type. We used to get a sort of timming error on high speed rapid cutting where it would miss cutting entre holes or parts of holes with the cut starting and stopping around the contour somtimes missing 6 or 7 holes in a row and would carry on unaware it even had problem. When the machine was doing this every part
it cut was missing different holes or parts of contours - no 2 faulty parts were the same. it took this fault about 2 years to appear on enough machines to be acknowleged and a fix in form of cnc software upgrade which is meant to stop this. It is so intermittent it is hard to know what the trigger is that causes these type of faults and if they have really have been fixed.

 

[laserbyspeed]

Sorry the green/red led was on the old tip of linear measuring system I misunderstood about your upgrading.
At the end of last year the bystronic technician upgrade the lens failure kit and the linear measuring system and we had no problem since then.
The problem could be in the CNC rack?. Hope they find the problem.

 

[msandoval]

Can you please submit your contact info to the e-mail address above. I spoke to the Vice President of Service here and the US and he would like to direct this to the proper person.

 

[aws04]

We got quoted about $3500 USD to buy the lens failure kit.
(with over the phone help for install)
I am interested to know how well in how well it works - didn't know if we should get that or not. If it works well it would save a lot down time when a lens go unexpectedly.

 

[laserbyspeed]

Whit lens failure kit you save a lot of down time. Plus is more safe for the optics . When I have a reflecting beam the machine stops and I clear the alarm I check the lens and I start cutting. I cut thick SS (6,8,10,12) and aluminium up to 5 mm and the upgrade was very good for us. Thanks

 

[captainfantastic]

Please could you tell me the cnc version being used.
Byvision
Main screen info button.

Also please tell me whether the pattern shift is in X or Y axis. Does it get progressivly worse.
Has the x and y axis screw tensions been checked.

do you produce out of round holes. ?

 

[aws04]

Hi There,
Our controller is the one before byvision
mmc p6013
cnc p6141 cpp

the the slots should have been parallel in a row along the x axis but they were shifting increcmentaly about 1mm
in y on each slot, sometimes the accumulated shift of about 50mm would make all other holes after this out by this accumulated amount the machine would sometime revert back
to putting the holes back in the correct locations although
the error would appear and disappear randomly throughout
the part. we never did find out what causes it. but it doesn't happen often and a power down and restart fixes it
It appears this model of machine has no monitoring of path error or checking to know that it is cutting what is in the gcode file. We still run the same program and it has been cutting the parts corectly to date

 

[aws04]

Hi There,
To answer your other questions cut holes are cutting round and we have never checked the leadscrew tensions

 

[captainfantastic]

ok

Possibly the machine rquires a new Impgen card. This is responsable for instructing the poscon cards where and how fast to psition the axis. Poscon could be faulty as well.

If these fail the other soulution is a software update.