Calculation reviews 3

[srbu]

I have been told to check some structural calculations of some minor, but important, parts of a project my firm is currently working on. After I checked the calculations my PM handed them back to me and asked me to sign and date the cover sheet as the sole reviewer. This is where I have a problem or so I think.

The person who performed the calculations is a PE. I am an EIT and have been working for only 6 months(since graduation) with this firm. I have yet to perform any type of structural calculations and have been limited, so far, to working on CAD for the past 6 months. I read in a design policy memorandum for this project that all calculations are to be checked by a competent checker. It goes on to define a competent checker as someone who must have experience and technical knowledge equivalent to or greater than the originator of the calculations. Since I last checked I haven't obtained my PE and definitely do not have the amount of experience as the calculation originator has. From this I have concluded that I am not a competent checker.

From what I have checked there are no mathematical errors and it seems to the best of my knowledge that the design specifications and codes were followed and used correctly. However, I find the codes hard to read and am not that confident at this time that I understand them well. I don't feel comfortable at this point in my career to be reviewing a PE's work and signing off on it.

Does anyone have any comments or suggestions?

 

[buzzp]

It would matter to me too. But, if your not a PE then I understand you will have no liability issues. But I understand your concern. You will feel bad if the structure collapsed and people were hurt. I would bring this up to your PM and see what he says. Make a memo addressed to him or something that way you have a paper trail. Was the originator out of town or something? I don't understand why he couldn't review it.

 

[austim]

Hi, srbu.

In my opinion, you should not sign off on those calculations under any circumstances whatsoever.

Disregard what your PM (or other 'experts' without relevant legal qualifications and experience) may tell you regarding the legal implications of any signature that you are being asked for. I can quite easily imagine that you could be in worse legal difficulties by signing when you do not have the experience required to do so. In some places that may be an offence in itself.

It would make no difference to me whether the original calcs were done by a fully qualified PE or by a first year student. If they are considered significant enough for your PM to see a need for a checker's signature, then that checker should be properly qualified for the task, and clearly you are not.

If necessary, can you get some much needed moral support from some senior engineer within your firm (hopefully, if you are an EIT, there is a nominated experienced engineer responsible for your general professional development?). If not what about the local chapter/branch of your professional engineering institution (ASCE, ICE or whichever)?

Good luck with this.

 

[TD2K]

I don't agree with your company's manual saying that you need to have experience equal to or greater than the person doing the original calculation but that's not the issue here.

You DO need to have the ability to perform a proper check and essentially, you have said you aren't because you don't feel you have the necessary skill. You need to go back to your PM (or discipline supervisor) and tell him you aren't able to check this work and tell him why. The reason that you have calculations or work checked is to ensure they are right, not just as something to do because the project execution manual or procedures says they are to be done. If you can't do the check properly, the check is providing no value.

Legal issues aside, ethically, you are bound not to do work you are not competent to do.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

Be careful.

First of all, your attitude is admirable.

Secondly, you checked the calcs, not the engineering behind the work, I'm assuming (this is a subtle distinction I'm making). Also, I am assuming you have a set of notes from the work you did. In my shop, anything leaving the office, especially reviews, is signed as prepared by me, but approved by my immediate supervisor - who is a P.E. with a million years of experience. He reviews my work - and he is FAST - and has me make corrections, etc. before it leaves our office.

Have you spoken with the engineer who did the calculations in the first place? Always do that before you turn anything in as finished.

Now, I think your PM is violating an ethical protocol and you are being set up if there's a mistake. Be prepared to defend yourself with violence - I'm serious, but you should question my sanity... You, in complete respect to the engineering profession have an issue. The PM, in complete disrespect to the engineering profession, wants something out the door fast and doesn't want to wait for the right signature.

 

[RDK]

Why not just sign as checked for mathematical accuracy only? That really is what you are doing since you feel that you do not have the experience to do otherwise.

I’m not sure that you are being set up in case things go wrong. An alternate explanation is that this is seen as an honour to be trusted to be the sole checker and that it is a first step to being allowed to do calculations and design on your own. (Are the designs routine or cutting edge? This could be a clue.)

I suggest that you talk to your supervisor and explain that you are uncomfortable being the only checker and that you do not feel competent to check the design at this stage of your career. Do not accuse him of setting you up or of having any ulterior motives. Keep it professional. Ask to have a more experienced engineer walk you through the calculations and explain why and how the design is working. You will learn and the checking will be done by someone of appropriate experience.

A good supervisor will push you to grow and develop but not far beyond your comfort level.

If they still want you to be the sole signer, save the notes from that session, make an entry in your daily diary or otherwise document the fact that someone else helped check the design even if you are the only signer.

I think its good for you to recognize that you are limited in experience and to not overreach. I’ve seen too many junior engineers who think that they know everything and overextend themselves. Usually the problems are caught before too long but sometimes it results in construction being re-done or worse bad designs being built and put into use.

I’m not saying that you should not extend your boundaries and continue growing but you have a long career and lots of time to become a senior designer. When you will be the one delegating the checking to others, taking clients to lunch and otherwise basking in the glory.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[DaveVikingPE]

Well, there it is...

RDK is "good cop," DaveViking is "bad cop."

...but don't take your pick. I think Mr. Kitson's suggestion that you should sign as "checked for mathematical accuracy only" is an EXCELLENT suggestion and is a win-win in all cases.

 

[muyi74]

srbu
To reinforce what has been said above by other contributors, i would first and foremost want
you to view the situation as an oppotunity to
go thru. (and probably)learn from the design
calculations of an experienced Engineer.

Secondly, i would not advise you to sign.
Instead discuss with your PM telling him why you
cannot sign due to your not being competent
& qualified enough to do such. If he still insists
on your signing then sign stating that only the numerical
calculations were checked and not the integrity of the
calculations(as advised by RDK). This would not make you liable to any problem(s) that may result from such action.

And lastly, try to meet the engineer, who did the design,
to talk about the design concept and all. I can bet you it would be highly rewarding experience.

Good luck. @#@#@#@

 

[srbu]

I would like to thank all of you for your responses. They were of great help to me and further confirmed for me what I already thought was the right thing to do.

I talked to my PM and told him I didn't feel comfortable signing them and he was understanding about it.(Sorry DaveViking, it didn't come to blows.) I was just suprised that he asked me to sign it in the first place because he is a PE and he knows what my abilities and previous experience has been.

Thanks again!

 

[austim]

srbu,

Just a quick 'well done'. I'm glad it has worked out OK.