California 1

[Waidesworld]

How bad is taxation and cost of living over in CA. I am thinking about the San Fran area but I am aware that the Boston prices where I live are high as it is, so I am used to that. Comparisons on factors such as job market, other costs, if anyone has input...thanks

drawn to design, designed to draw

 

[evelrod]

My 50th reunion was last year and the big subject was how the education system had changed...for the worse...!
No, not here in California...In Texas! Once upon a time I felt the teaching system in Texas was on a par with the best...especially when we moved to California in 1966. Except for a couple years working in Texas, 1975/76, my kids went to school here. From personal observation, California schools are, at best, near the bottom of the totem pole. Pretty sad. Not for all, as many students do quite well, instead of just doing the minimum as required by the state, they have exceeded them and done quite well. Are they the exception? Man, I sure hope not even though I probably just 'wishing'.

If you have school age children and you want a first class education, be prepared to either home school or private school. Even then it's going to be tough.

San Francisco area is nice. Further north is better. When we came here I worked all over California and ended up in San Diego (still love that town). From there to L.A. (really dislike that place) and finally here to southwest Riverside Cnty., Wildomar/Lake Elsinore area. It's not as rural as it was...BUT...my property taxes are only $1200/yr. thanks to Prop 13. I REALLY like that! Homes in my area have dropped in value by 50% or more. My home dropped from $660k to mid $300k since 2006. It will go back up, it always does...This is not my first rodeo!

If your going to buy something in California, indeed, anywhere...now would be a good time.

Rod

 

[IRstuff]

San Francisco's premier high school is Lowell High School, which is public; it has something like a 80% college acceptance rate for a 900+ graduating class.

Likewise, Troy High School in Fullerton is the premier high school in Orange County, and likewise, it has similar college acceptance rates.

Both high schools are pretty much near the top in California API scores.

While "average" school in California is nowhere near that level of performance, a sizable portion of the blame needs to be attributed to the parents. Without parental involvement and "push," children will naturally trend toward low-side compliance in school. Parents today appear to be more interested in coddling, and sports, rather than education.

This is not necessarily a recent thing, either. "Johnny Can't Read" was published more than 30 yrs ago. Even prior to that, intellectual excellence has always been denigrated in American culture as "ivory tower" or "nerdly" etc.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[Waidesworld]

I sometimes look at my own education and a lot of it was bolstered by the interest level my parents had in ensuring I got to know a lot of stuff. Not necessarily things a teacher would tell you, whether good or bad, but growing up in Ireland a visit to Newgrange (5000 year old burial ground)(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newgrange)

makes you a tad more interested in ancient history.
Outside our school was a burial marker for an Irish soldier killed in the Irish Civil War times...which had a lot of us more interested in that historic era.
The examples are endless, but I know that is what I want to do with my young fella. He has a big interest in books which I can only encourage as best I can.

drawn to design, designed to draw

 

[kepharda]

Trust me the California public school system is in no way as inept at teaching your children as say --Mississippi, Louisiana etc.

The main issue with California is that large cities typically have a much greater problem teaching kids that smaller towns. California has a bunch of big cities. And it is on a coast and next to a International Border which means you have lots and lots of immigrant's children in the public school system.

I am not trying to tell you that there is any problem with immigrants, but if you didn't grow up speaking English school would be very tough for some impossible.

So comparing the public school systems of California to say Connecticut/Ohio/Utah/NJ is like comparing apples to orange popsicles.

this message has been approved for citizen to elect kepharda 2008

 

[berkshire]

kepharda
You say " I am not trying to tell you that there is any problem with immigrants, but if you didn't grow up speaking English school would be very tough for some impossible."

I live in the southern part of the state and I find the education system leaning over backwards to accommodate just these people.

An example: My wife is a school teacher, she has bachelors and masters degrees in English and teaches high school English.
She applied for a job as an English teacher at a local school and was rejected, because she could not speak SPANISH.
She now works as a magazine editor and makes more money.
B.E.

 

[TheTick]

California schools are failing all their students, including the white, English-speaking ones.

When I was in navy nuclear power school, it was clear that the students from the Deep South didn't get as good of an education as those from the Midwest. However, their success rate was higher than that of the California-educated. Unlike the Californians, the Southerners were not convinced of the superiority of their mediocre educations.

 

[Waidesworld]

Well I just spent a week in San Francisco and it was funny how everyone bitched about the fact it was mid fifties. It's in the thirties here in Boston so it was like a spring morning ever day for me. I had forgotten about the number of bums on the street, but once again, Boston can make you immune to a lot of this.

My wife is a native Spanish speaker and she left the class in her high school here because it was terrible. They were trying to teach English to the Spanish speakers, but they didn't have a teacher who was good at English! Go figure.

drawn to design, designed to draw

 

[JohnRBaker]

It was reported that Samuel Clemens (AKA, Mark Twain) once remarked; "The coldest winter day I ever spent was a summer day in San Fransisco."

I can't attest to whether Mr. Clemens ever actually said that (there are claims that he didn't) but I can report that the first time my wife and I ever visited San Fransisco, back in 1977, that I can understand why he might have. We were there for a conference and it was in July and we being from Michigan and have having never been to California before we expect the weather to be nice and warm, if not downright hot. Anyway, on the first day we were there we were on a tour of the area, via bus up to Marin County and dinner in Tiburon and then taking the ferry back across the Bay to Fisherman's Wharf and then it was only a short walk back to our hotel. When we left the hotel for the bus it was bright and sunny and warm, so we left our jackets and sweaters behind. Well by the time we got off the ferry at around 10:00pm that night we were frozen. We never realized how cold it got out on the water once the sun went down.

Well, we've now bee here in SoCal (Orange County) for 30 years and we've learned, even down here, that you don't go anywhere any time of year without something warm to wear if you're going to be out after dark as the air is dry and it does not hold the heat and if you're near the ocean and the wind is coming on-shore it can get very cool indeed. Of course you also learn that when the Santa Ana winds blow in from the deserts that it can be 100 degrees out even if the wind is blowing at 60 mph, something else that took getting used to coming from the Mid-West where that was just unheard of ;-)

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[IRstuff]

> SF is surrounded on 3 sides by water
> The Japan Current brings Artic water down the Pacific Northwest coast, so the ocean water around SF is hypothermic to humans, even in the summertime
> SF is generally not hot, probably no more than a handful of days over 80°F per year.
> SF is probably actually quite humid, but it's usually cold humidity, rather than hot, so it's like a windchill

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[MechEng2005]

I took Kepharda's comment to indicate that looking at the average test scores may not be the best way to determine how good the school is. The background of the students may have a role. I suspect that students with english as a second language may have lower scores in general, and this affects states like CA more than say IL.

I don't want to get into a debate about the intelligence various backgrounds, gender, etc, etc... I certainly wouldn't do well any a school that used any language besides english.

-- MechEng2005

 

[Waidesworld]

JohnRBaker you said, "and have having never been to California before we expect the weather to be nice and warm, if not downright hot."
and you can't blame San Francisco for assumptions you make. California is a huge state and the climate can range the same amount. Take Crescent City (52F) in the North and San Diego (62F)in the south and compare it to Palm Springs (70) (All temps just checked as of noon today.)

I went to SF last week, and packed according to what the forecast was going to be. As it stood, I was comfortable. The fact that I was coming from a climate currently 10-25 degrees colder meant I was more tolerant of a 50 degree climate than someone who was coming from say, Miami. It's all perspective.

drawn to design, designed to draw

 

[JohnRBaker]

I wasn't blaming 'San Fransisco', just that the 'cold' conditions were a bit unexpected. After all, if you're from Michigan and were raised on all those TV shows/movies filmed in California you get a certain preconceived notion as to what it might be like, and then you're suddenly confronted with the prospect of visiting it for the first time in your life. Like I said, I understood what Mr. Clemens meant (he wasn't a California native either).

BTW, 2 weeks after my wife and I got back from San Fransisco, I had to travel to the Los Angeles/Long Beach area for a 2 week training class so I did have an opportunity to learn first hand that the weather was much better in SoCal. And 3 years later when I had the chance to change jobs and relocate to SoCal, the weather did indeed play a role in making the decision somewhat easier than it might have been (selling a house, my wife quiting her job, moving 3 kids ages 2 thru 12, leaving all of your family and friends behind, etc.). Anyway, we never regretted the move, and while we've always liked San Fransisco and have spent many weekends in Napa Valley (#2 son used to work there), we do appreciate the better weather of SoCal, particularly if you're in Orange County and you live and work only 6 or 7 miles from the ocean.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[IRstuff]

California has a very varied environment. There are those that have ski (CA-style, anyway) and surf, in a single day. Southern California is where the movieland CA lives, sun, blondes, surfing, etc. Northern California can be moderate, ala SF, to pretty much Northwest rainforest, ala Oregon border. Having spent, by now, more time in SoCal than SF, it's a shock to go further north toward Lassen or Shasta and be continually pelted with this weird wet stuff from the sky. We're used to smog obscuring the mountains, but up north, it's fog and clouds.



TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[thruthefence]

I was paraphrasing, Clements, of course, but I was also in the Filmore one foggy summer night in 1970. While the absolute temperature was not really that low, it was damp & I thought I was going to freeze to death.

and apparently I'm not the only southern boy to be taken by surprise.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g60713-s208/San-Francisco:California:Weather.And.When.To.Go.html

About halfway down the page, speaks specifically to the 'phenomena'.

 

[ivymike]

"ski (CA-style, anyway)"
what's that supposed to mean? steeper than you can find most places, and with rocks to dodge? I've been a skier for years, and the best places I've found so far are Alpine Meadows (CA), Squaw Valley (CA), and Jackson Hole (Wy). I suppose the lattes are good in CO...

 

[IRstuff]

Well, you need to be a walrus to ski Tahoe, and then surf in the same day, particularly around the Bay Area.
;-)

Rocks, man-made, ice harder than rock, etc. I've only managed to ski fresh powder once, at Kirkwood; it was like floating in the clouds. I'm told loose powder is much more common farther East. You go to somewhere like Alpine or Kirkwood, and there's the usual "packed powder" which is just a thin veneer that soon gets scraped off to reveal the glassy ice pack underneath that's barely skiable without razor-sharp edges; that's typical California skiing, that I recall.

BTW, why didn't you like Kirkwood?

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[ivymike]

I didn't say Kirkwood was bad, but I lived in Truckee for 7 years or so, and Squaw/Alpine are right there (and better). I actually skied for at least two hours every single day of the '92 season, including a few stops at Kirkwood.

I was judging more on the difficulty of the terrain than on the fluffiness of the snow (I get bored very quickly if it's not steep and narrow, excluding powder days...and I'm not sure I'd like a whole week of powder skiing if the steep spots were closed off). I like a good mogul run even on an ice day...

Jackson/Squaw/Alpine all have suitably steep runs. I've only been to Jackson once, and the snow was crap, but it immediately jumped up to the top of my scale because of the out-of-bounds area on the left (facing up) and the steep stuff in the middle. Grand Targhee was a one-day stop on the same trip, and I found it pretty boring, although the little cliffs on the right hand side (Das Boat, Toilet Bowl) were fun for a while.

 

[ivymike]

oh, one other thing - I've surf kayaked (although never surfed) at Shelter Cove at Christmas several years in a row... once in a sea-level snowstorm (95?)... it's not that bad if you've got a farmer john, boots, and a hat (wetsuit stuff). I typically went bare-armed w/o gloves.