Call-Out Standards (steel plates, angles, and welds) 1

[Deadblow]

Hello,

I hope that I am not over staying my welcome on this site, but I love the knowledge that I gain from all of you. I am an EIT with almost a year under my belt, but I know that it will take decades for me to learn the ins and outs associated with the structural engineering profession. I recently had, (how should I say it?), a heated debate with our Cad technician over proper nomenclature for steel plates, angles, and welds. I am going to make a standard sheet so everyone here in the office uses the same call-out nomenclature. What are the proper ways to call-out steel plates, steel angles, and welds on drawings?

Please see the attachment for how I do it and then tell me what you agree/disagree with. Feel free to educate me down to the spaces, lower case "x", and where "inches" are called out and omitted.

Thanks!

 

[KootK]

Looks fine to me. There's always room for some creative deviation so long as it doesn't create confusion. Conventions probably differ from region to region. I have a copy of AISC's detailing manual and try to stay consistent with that to a large degree. What does your CAD guy disagree with? An experienced drafter is often a valuable resource for junior engineers to learn from. If that opportunity exists for you, be sure to milk it.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[jayrod12]

I'm echoing Koot on this one on all counts. They look fine to me, at our office they're slightly different (plates and angles) but weld symbols are standardized (or at least they should be) across all engineering firms.

Never discount what an experienced CAD tech is telling you. Once you've worked with green ones, you're realize how valuable the tough old goats are.

 

[LowLax]

My office does it basically the same way with a few differences:
No special symbols for PL and L

PL 3/8"x4"x0'-7"
L 3-1/2x3-1/2x1/4x0'-6"

No inch " marks on welds, and no .at the end of abbreviations.

We're trying to communicate to a steel fabricator, so we try to match their standards somewhat. We like to make noting things as simple as possible.

 

[Archie264]

They look pretty darn good to me. That said, since you've asked for input, my nitpicky comment is that while I *prefer* the plate and angle symbols as you've shown them, in AutoCAD it takes an extra step to label them that way and therefore probably not worth the extra time to do it, for production reasons. Again, what you've shown is how I prefer to show them, but there is a saying something to the effect of not making "perfect" the enemy of the "good". With hand drafting I'd definitely show them as you have, though.

 

[Lomarandil]

The AISC convention for electronic data interchange can be a good resource for when to include inch marks("), spaces, that sort of thing.

https://www.aisc.org/WorkArea/showcontent.aspx?id=6444

I've always thought it was funny to use the property line symbol for plates, but it does look really slick.

 

[hokie66]

It certainly is easier and clearer in millimetres...

 

[Ingenuity]

It certainly is easier and clearer in millimetres...

Stated by an American who has seen the light

 

[thaidavid40]

Looks pretty typical by the standards in this area (deep South, US). The only difference with us is that we do not use inch marks for plate callouts, except on the last dimension. For example: PL 1/4x4x1'6". And we do not use the hyphens. This all looks pretty standard to me.
Dave

Thaidavid

 

[IFRs]

Proportion your weld callouts per AWS ( arrows, circles, symbols, etc )
Don't use symbols not available from the keyboard unless you are going to make it easy for the drafters.

 

[IFRs]

For readability, I break my own rule for all uppercase and use 3x3x1/4 or W12x22 ( using a lower case x )

 

[racookpe1978]

Stick with "straight" abbreviations and letters.

What is on AutoCAD as fancy graphic symbols has to be typed by others (NOT AutoCAD drafters!) in every purchase order or label or invoice or letter or email explaining problems or inventory list. Be able to export and import letters and values and lists and descriptions numbers from other systems and from manual sketches and scanned or emailed or photographed or photo-copied.

For example, Excel and MSWord will recognize and import and export both L and PL. NOT any AutoCAD-generated fancy symbol.

Thus, as above L and PL are better and more accurate in the long run.

Decimals and fractions? Be able to use whichever is going to be most usable in the specific place it is written or calculated.

 

[BUGGAR]

I will never give up my little square with the quote sign.

 

[Archie264]

I will never give up my little square with the quote sign.

I'm with you there. That symbolic system in the upper right corner works fairly well. It's it's descriptive and succinct, therefore elegant.

 

[dozer]

First, let me say if I saw these on a drawing I would know exactly what you are trying to convey and wouldn't have any issue. Now, since you seem to be asking us to nit pick and for the sake of the vote, I agree with LowLax.

So, don't keep us in suspenders, just what does your CAD guy disagree with?

 

[Deadblow]

Thank you all for your responses. The CAD technician likes to use capital "X"s and inch marks when an angle is called out. They would also call out the length by typing "24" long angle". I'm young and not set in my ways yet, so I am just trying to get uniform call-outs in our office. The CAD technician hammered me saying that my call-outs don't match what they are accustomed to doing and I need to get it figured out. So now I have taken some good pointers from you all, and I created a standard sheet with call-outs on it.

P.S. Yes our CAD tech has some great experience but is not easy to work with.

Thanks!

 

[dozer]

If he has such great experience why hasn't he long ago set up uniform call-outs that he could have just passed on to you when you started?

Oh, and for what it worth, I like small "X's" because I think it makes it more readable (easier to see the separation between the dimensions). I also don't like spelling out "angle" at the end of the angle description because you have already indicated that it is an angle by the symbol at the beginning of the description. It is my firm belief that repetition in drawings just increases the likelihood of an error when a drawing gets revised. This is because people tend to change a description or whatever, assume that is the only place, move on, and miss repeated instances of it.