Calling it a day....but at what time?

[ooox]

Just trying to gauge what others do here.

I often find myself finishing meetings/site visits and debating whether I should go back to the office or just call it a day. I live about 30 minutes journey from my office, my working hours are 8.30-5pm. If my journey back to the office will mean I get there at 4.00pm I usually just call it a day and head home.

If it's a Friday, well, thats another story...

 

[Neubaten]

Pat, what I'm trying to say is that it is wrong to throw terms such as "theft", "robbery" or "crime", as several people mentioned above. If you commit timesheet fraud, legally you are only commiting breach of contract, which is different from crime.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself in the most straight forward fashion, and I chose the wrong example, but I swear you I haven't touched any substance ...so far!!

If 999 skips his last hour, he is not going to face criminal accusations, as someone implied. I was just trying to clarify this.

 

[PeterStock]

If he is working on a project that is billed by the hour, his time driving back to the office can be charged to the client. If he goes home, and plays with his kid, it can not. If he goes home, sits back and reviews the work and closes his eyes and thinks about the project, it is - up to the first snore. If he charges his time to overhead, no problem. It is theft to charge the client for time not worked. (Driving to and from the client site should be chargable, unless the contract does not allow it.)

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

http://www.infotechpr.net

 

[IRstuff]

That'll depend. See:

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/news5870.html

http://www.amdexcorp.com/GuidelinesforUsersone-timecardCompletion.pdf

In both cases, criminal, and not just civil, penalties are supposedly applied.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[hoyle]

I would ask your boss what he expects you to do, on all our drawings it says “if in doubt –ask.”
If I need to leave early by an hour, when that small thing called life gets in the way of work, then my boss will let me go. Then again, he knows that I arrive early by 30 minutes every single day, and have gone on site (and a cr*p one at that) for a week at 48 hours notice, and more than once.

 

[Junior37c]

The legality becomes even trickier when liability comes into play.

If you get in a car accident driving from a jobsite to your house rather than from the jobsite to your office, how will the insurance company look on that?

Or if you fall off a ladder before your scheduled end time.

 

[Neubaten]

IRstuff, yes, the exception are government jobs.

Junior37c, what you say can also happen the other side, what if you have a stroke in your office after working hours? Or some part of a prototype hits you in the head while staying overtime for a last minute adjustment?

 

[patprimmer]

I was technically defining fraud.

Just because something is fraud, that does not mean it can be or will be prosecuted in the vast majority of cases.

I am told that the stealing of time outweighs all other theft in combined and is commited largly by people who:-
1) Do not consider it stealing.
2) Consider it justified.
3) have never stolen anything else in their life (well maybe a kiss in their youth).

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

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[Neubaten]

I agree with you on that, but I haven't ever know what is really losing time until I met a bad manager. A bad manager can turn long research & work hours into nothing in a second. I guess if you get serious you can consider that theft as well...


Btw, sometimes I think about the work time management proposed by Skinner in the novel "Walden 2" and I think he may be right. Has anyone here read it?

 

[PhilBW]

I had an employer several years ago who got into trouble with the labor department. All of the engineers were salaried, but he wanted us to record when we arrived at work and when we left. He reviewed our time sheets to make sure we were all working at least 40 hours per week. Someone filed a complaint with the labor department, and they said if he didn't pay us by the hour he could not require us to record our hours worked. It may have been different if we had written contracts stating a specific number of hours we were supposed to work, but we didn't have written contracts.

 

[KENAT]

There was debate on that at my last place in the UK. I think it came down to the fact that for Engineering the key card access was meant to track you for Safety (fire drill role call) and potentially security reasons (Defence Co.) not for time keeping.

However, we all knew the wage clerk, (or time police) did used to look through our records and bring it up with her boss etc if we looked short on hours. The looks we used to get when they'd all que up waiting to log out at 4:30, waiting for the clock to tick over, and we'd sometimes just clock out at 4:28 or something crazy like that.

The hypocrisy of it, getting mad at us for clocking out ‘early’ as they stood there watching us, not working themselves whilst on the clock, was apparently lost on them. We’d all more than made our 40 (at least on average) be it getting early, working through lunches, staying late, business travel etc.

Sorry, a bit off topic.

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[IRstuff]

Timeclock queues were a regular feature down on the unionized shop floor. What was more blatant, was that the contract allowed for some number of minutes for cleanup, etc., but it seemed like they would finish up even earlier, and most of their "cleanup" time was spent in line at the timeclock.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[cdxx139]

why not leave early on the days of the meeting and make up the time the next day? As long as your time card says 40 hours, who says they have to be 8 hours every day.

 

[berkshire]

Ir stuff,
Reminds me of a machine shop foreman who would see the time clock queue, walk down to the time clock, and say OK , the first six men clock out NOW !
B.E.

 

[NomLaser]

"Timeclock queues were a regular feature down on the unionized shop floor. What was more blatant, was that the contract allowed for some number of minutes for cleanup, etc., but it seemed like they would finish up even earlier, and most of their "cleanup" time was spent in line at the timeclock."

We had this problem at a factory that I worked at that wasn't unionized. It got so bad that they made everyone stay in their department until the bell rang. Then there were people that would literally run for the clock. Never quite understood that one.

 

[SirAl]

Not an easy question to answer. It depends upon your employment situation and corporate culture.

For myself, I am a professional and as such a large part of my life evolves around my career. There are days when I knock off early, sure. But there are days that I bring work home or I am at the office or job site well into the evening. What's to be gained after a gruelling meeting when you are spent, to return to work just to fill-in until quitting time? I believe that there should be some flexibility in this regard. If you are a wage earner, perhaps your hours should reflect an early quitting time.

 

[IRstuff]

"Then there were people that would literally run for the clock. Never quite understood that one. "

That's easy. Where that was, you were docked at the front gate for every minute you were late, but you got nothing for staying over. The system motivates you to be low-side compliant.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[BigInch]

Just keep a current account of hours worked or not worked and you should be able to tell exactly what you should do. If its still not clear for some reason, credit or debit the account, until it becomes clear.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

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[SomptingGuy]

running for the clock...

I swiped in today at 9:29:55, 5 seconds under the wire.

- Steve

 

[BigInch]

A 0.001 credit!

I'd carry that one over just about as far as the coffee bar.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/