Can lithium batteries power all cars in America? 23

[Space car]

Can lithium batteries power all cars in America? The answer may be “Yes,” but we must change direction if we are to have any chance. Based on recent history, after the coronavirus pandemic is over, US new car sales will return to about 17.5 million units per year. When we get to a first year for all-electric car production, how much lithium will be needed? A lithium ion battery contains 0.3 grams of lithium per amp-hour of battery capacity, or about 0.09 kg of lithium per kilowatt-hour (kWh)

https://batteryguy.com/kb/knowledge-base/how-to-calculate-the-lithium-content-in-a-battery/

Lithium mines measure their output in kilograms of lithium carbonate. In terms of mine output, it takes 0.96 kg of lithium carbonate per kWh of battery capacity. Assume each car has an average battery capacity of 60 kWh. Multiplying by 17.5 million cars, the amount of lithium mine output needed will be 1.0 million metric tonnes of lithium carbonate for each year of new EVs
In 2020, total world mine output of lithium carbonate is projected to be about 0.7 million metric tonnes. The world is now scrambling to find more lithium. There are more problems:
• US auto sales are only about 22% of vehicle sales worldwide.
• Power companies are aggressively purchasing Lithium batteries for the grid.
Some say that science can solve the problem—"another, even better battery will be found that may not even need lithium.” Well, no, that isn’t the situation. No other element carries as much charge for its weight as does ionized lithium and the lithium ion cell produces a prodigious 3.7 volts. Current batteries obtain about 85% of the theoretical limit of energy storage for their lithium content. Future improvements will only be in battery structure, weight, and charging speed.

CONCLUSION: Power companies don’t need light-weight batteries—they MUST use something else! America must vastly increase domestic mining and processing of lithium and other strategic materials such as cobalt, nickel, aluminum, and rare earth metals needed for an electrified economy. Plus we can learn to be more thrifty. The auto industry can make more efficient electric vehicles that need only half as much battery capacity.

 

Humans have got on simply fine for all our history without every single person needing their own automobile.

In the years before IC, large cities were dealing with massive quantities of horse poop in the streets.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[IRstuff]

In the years before IC, large cities were dealing with massive quantities of horse poop in the streets.

We're watching HBO's "Gilded Age" series and wondering how people, women in particular, tolerated long dress trains/hems dragging whatever's on the street/sidewalk around after them. Ick.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[hokie66]

Agree mostly with IRstuff. But I think most of us could get along just fine without cell phones, especially smartphones.

 

[cranky108]

Before we have cell phones, there were pay phones in many more places. We also had phone books where we could look up a business, or another person.
And superman had phone booths to change in.

Actuall large amounts of horse poop would be a solution to the problem of importing fertilizer. But few of us have enough room to place a horse barn.

So far I have not heard of any suggestions that cover all the things that IC cars/trucks do.

 

Horses used for agriculture and transportation are where we started losing the game thermodynamically.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[Ron247]

So what if horse poop was a problem in the past; people poop on the sidewalk and street is our new issue

 

I should have known in advance that just writing 'poop' would trigger all kinds of diversions from the point.

Next post: cows f@rting out the GHG methane at both ends. Knock yourselves out.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[Comcokid]

The information below is on the historical horse manure issue. In 1894 projections of the problem for London resulted in a crisis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_horse_manure_crisis_of_1894

If you read other sources you find that horses that died while pulling wagons were frequently left where they fell half buried in the muck, and their tackle moved to a replacement horse brought from the stable. Horses were the semi-truck and delivery van of the day. Below is a 1-minute video of the problem in NYC.

https://www.nyhistory.org/community/horse-manure

If you look at other historical sources for NYC you find the brownstone steps and porch of so many old NYC houses was a necessity so the porch would be above the muck and one could clean their boots before coming into the house. And notice those old photographs and paintings. Men always wore boots that came half-way up their calf. Women wore tall lace-up shoes. You may think wearing spats are only something done by marching bands. But in the late 1800's they served a very practical use of keeping the muck off the shoelaces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spats_(footwear)

I suggest the forum move to more technical issues on lithium batteries.

 

[cranky108]

To go back to the original question, Biden thinks so. What else do we need?
Maybe a boot to the head?

 

To go back to the original question, 'all cars in America' is really the problem. That, and all of the infrastructure and urban design buit to support them.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[cranky108]

And my question, do all cars need to be the same?

 

Does all transportation need to look like cars?

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[cranky108]

No, all transportation does not need to look the same. Do all riders of public transportation need to smell so bad?
The social aspect of public transportation is it's own problem.
The non-social aspect of car ownership is a solution. That's why we own a car, and not just to go from here to there.

If the cost of owning a car was higher, then people would look more at public transportation. And maybe that is what some in government wants (not surprising). And this is why each of us don't own an airplane.
There are other aspects that could get people out of there cars, such as lower cost public transportation, but that would also attract smeller people. Or cleaner public transportation, but that would increase costs. Or better public transportation time tables.

But I doubt public transportation can be what everybody wants. So the car/truck is here to stay for a time.
So the question/debate of the best mix of car/truck type, and public transportation will continue as long as we all don't agree with me.

 

Try again, this time without being as hyper-literal. Because my question was not a technical one.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[cranky108]

If you have a new transportation type, then throw it out there.
Does all public transportation need to look like buses? No, but that is what is typically proposed.
Yes the BART is nice but it has a high cost per rider, and is not practical in so many places.

Actually, the best public transportation is the air travel system, but it depends on a traffic density that is hard to achieve for short distances. And better yet it is privately owned (corporations, not government).
The bus system in several other countries also works like this. But not in the US.

Maybe part of the problem in the US is the distance between homes, and businesses. But there is the density issue.
Most of the people in the US choose to have space between us the the people next door. Me I choose to own 35 acres.
What are my transportation options? Like most people who live where I do, I have a car/truck, or three.

 

???

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[LionelHutz]

Try again, this time without being as hyper-literal. Because my question was not a technical one.

Already answered...

No, all transportation does not need to look the same.

You post trolling flippant type questions and actually expect deep meaningful answers???

 

You post trolling flippant type questions and actually expect deep meaningful answers???

Trolling? You're entitled to your opinion.

deep meaningful answers??? I may have come to the wrong place.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[cranky108]

Deep and meaningful answers is a matter of what you interpret it to be. Maybe more like answers from people who are somewhat like minded is a better description.