Can you jog an A/B ArmorStart 284G Drive controlled motor when it's DeviceNet network is not working 1

[DetHam]

I posted this on another Forum and have not gotten any responses. Hope I am not violating any rules or forum etiquette by reposting here. I am just looking for some ideas and answers.

We have many Allen Bradley ArmorStart 284G VFD drives. Each controls a motor that is used on a Power Roller Bed. The rollers on the PRB move car-carrying skids. These A/B 284G drives are on a DeviceNet network. We have an A/B PLC 5000 that sends the signals or commands, via DeviceNet, to VFD to make rollers turn, control speed, release motor brake, etc...

Recently we had contractors working in our automated Cells. They needed to move some steel into a Cell and the only way was to load it on an empty Skid and jog it to where they wanted it to go. Because things were partially torn apart the DeviceNet network was not working. So I could not do the normal jogging or moving of a Skid. In the end the contractors released motor's manual brake, laid on floor, with body partially under lift table, they spun the Roller Bed motor using a Drill motor. They were able to slowly move Skid and get material to destination. There has got to be a better and safer way.

My question is: Do any of you know of a way I could command VFD to run motor and have control of speed and break when DeviceNet is not working? Is there a hand held device that I could hook up to drive and jog it? Our ArmorStart 284G drives have no manual jog on them. Do any of you know of a way I could command VFD to run motor and have control of speed and break?

 

[itsmoked]

Hi.
I'm not familiar with a 284G VFD specifically but I've never seen a general purpose VFD that you could not command motions with alternatively. You would however need a manual and typically change the parameter that directs 'what' controls the VFD to the user panel on the drive. Then you should be able to jog and run the drive easily. Just remember what you changed and, of course, change it back when you're done.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[jraef]

You would need to use the optional HOA keypad that it can come with, that has a jog button on it.

That however is not a field installable accessory, although you may be able to send them it to the factory to have it added.

But the ArmorStart does not have any digital I/O built-in, it is intended for network control only (other than the HOA option). So there is nothing to wire a separate "Jog" button to.



"You measure the size of the accomplishment by the obstacles you had to overcome to reach your goals" -- Booker T. Washington

 

[DetHam]

Itsomoked said, “I've never seen a general purpose VFD that you could not command motions with alternatively”. I agree with you.

There must be a way – I think? All I have access to on the ArmorStart 284G Drive is a “RESET” button. There are no “JOG” or “RUN” buttons. All the VFD commands are sent and received via DeviceNet and if the network is down and not working how do I make the desired motor run?

 

[DetHam]

jraef I'm at work and you responded while I was replying to "Itsmoked".

We don't have that keypad that you displayed. So, let me ask does Allen Bradley makes a hand held device I could hook up to DeviceNet port to gain control?

 

[waross]

Is there any hardware that you can use to generate a DeviceNet command? If the drive will only accept a DeviceNet command, live with that limitation and explore options to supply a DeviceNet command from an alternate source.
Is there anything that you can use with a laptop?

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[DetHam]

Waross, I do not have any answers as of now. I do not know how to interface with 284g drive. It seems there would be a way but I am not smart or knowledgeable enough to come up with one on my own. That is why I am asking and if there is something already out there (please let me know) why try and reinvent the wheel?

 

[jraef]

There is a hand-held programmer that I believe you could use to send a command. 193-DNCT



"You measure the size of the accomplishment by the obstacles you had to overcome to reach your goals" -- Booker T. Washington

 

[DetHam]

jraef the 193-DNCT looks interesting. I will read the literature and see if I can determine if it will work. I'll also keep asking around here, in our plant, to see if any of our engineers can help me. thanks.

 

[DetHam]

As I read over manual of A/B 193-DNCT DeviceNet Configuration Terminal I don't see any jogging function available. It seems to be all about having access to parameters and such. I'm still hoping there is a way to jog these dang things when Dnet network is not working.

 

[LionelHutz]

You could get a PLC with Devicenet and build a little box with some push buttons, maybe a speed dial, a cord and a devicenet cable. Then, program it to convert the inputs into various commands to control the VFD.

 

[jraef]

No there is no specific jog function, I said you could use it to send a command, i.e. a "Run" command, by changing a parameter, the same as the PLC would. I haven't studied the manual for the ArmorStart enough to see what that would be, but you might want to just call AB's Drives Tech Support and ask them. It's free if you call in normal business hours. (262) 512-8176


"You measure the size of the accomplishment by the obstacles you had to overcome to reach your goals" -- Booker T. Washington

 

[roydm]

Is it possible to have a separate drive set up for jogging that can be wired to the motor in place of the normal one?
Perhaps this could also be used as a backup if one of the installed ones fails.

 

[itsmoked]

I've looked all over for some sort of "Devicenet Hand Terminal". I'm amazed that it looks likes there are none on the planet.

It so amazes me that I have to wonder if anyone uses Devicenet anymore or if it's pretty passé by now.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[jraef]

I've looked all over for some sort of "Devicenet Hand Terminal". I'm amazed that it looks likes there are none on the planet.

It so amazes me that I have to wonder if anyone uses Devicenet anymore or if it's pretty passé by now.

The installed base of DeviceNet networks is huge here in North America, but yes, it's use is waning as far as new installations go. DeviceNet was a good response to an old problem involving networking of industrial controls because of our (North American) rules on wire insulation values; that all cables in a common raceway or enclosure must have the same insulation rating. So if you have 480V anywhere, the insulation is rated 600V, so any networking cables must also be rated for 600V. DeviceNet provided that, along with a simple 2 wire transmission system, where other networks did not (ProfiNet did as well, but never caught on here like it did in Europe and elsewhere). DeviceNet was, however, difficult to implement (in my opinion) compared to other things we were all used to, such as Ethernet. The advancement of Ethernet infrastructure into the 600V realm has all but killed any excitement about starting something new with DeviceNet now.


"You measure the size of the accomplishment by the obstacles you had to overcome to reach your goals" -- Booker T. Washington

 

[FreddyNurk]

I had thought DeviceNet was an extension of CAN developed by AB, but eventually released as an 'open' protocol so that others can implement it. I'm not sure what advantage DeviceNet gave over CAN (maybe the extent of it is the physical constraints mentioned by jraef), but there are certainly other networking protocols that can also be used. I'm not sure if DeviceNet really took off outside of the US either.

If it is anything like CAN, trying to cater for the myriad of COBs for every device and platform would likely exclude any possibility of a generic DeviceNet hand controller.

 

[jraef]

OK, I've gone into the full blown manual a bit deeper, and there ARE 4 digital inputs on the drive, they just don't connect to terminal blocks. I had cheated earlier and just looked for TB connection diagrams in the "Quick Start" manual, but the info on the Digital Inputs is in the Advanced Programming section, which is not shown in the QS manual, you need to "real" one.

The 4 DI's are connected to M12 connectors on the front, 2 connectors with 2 DIs in each one plus an on-board 12VDC source for them, so you need DRY contacts that are OK with low votlage. So if you are not using those for anything else, you could use one of them to command a Jog function by assigning the DI that you chose (parameters 151-154) to be a "Jog" input (value of "2"). I'm not 100% sure, but it appears that this will override the network Run / Speed command as long as it is High, but when you release it, the motor will Stop and something (i.e. the network) will be required to initiate a new Run command afterward.


"You measure the size of the accomplishment by the obstacles you had to overcome to reach your goals" -- Booker T. Washington

 

[waross]

Nice work Jeff.
It looks as if an M12 connector and a push button will solve the problem.
lps

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter