I am looking at brining a piece of packaging machinery into Ontario from Italy. The machine has a CE mark on it and all of the components (PLC, contactors, relays, etc.) have CSA and UL marks on them. My question is about the control and power wiring. Is it acceptable to bring the machine in with certificates stating that the wiring meets or exceeds CSA or is it necessary that all of the wiring have CSA markings on it?
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Canadian Electrical Code 2
- Thread starter johnbu
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Johnbu
There should be a rating label and it should have a UL or CSA mark with the rating of the equipment on it. That label implies that the system was looked at by UL or CSA and that somebody is inspecting (UL or CSA) this model. Also look for a "c UL us" The c and us will be in subscript on either side of the UL mark. That means that its certified for both US and Canada for the rating on the label. Keep those certification papers you have in your possession in any case.
Dan
There should be a rating label and it should have a UL or CSA mark with the rating of the equipment on it. That label implies that the system was looked at by UL or CSA and that somebody is inspecting (UL or CSA) this model. Also look for a "c UL us" The c and us will be in subscript on either side of the UL mark. That means that its certified for both US and Canada for the rating on the label. Keep those certification papers you have in your possession in any case.
Dan
If you plan to use the machine in Ontario, I remember that Ontario Hydro had a certifications service for such approvals. I'm not sure if it still exists, but I remember having them certify a piece of equipment that I installed and that had no CSA label. When the quantities are small, it may make more sense to see these places, or other certifications labs than CSA. Your insurance company had the last word on this certification approval thing. The purpose of these labels is about security, but it is also for the insurance companies to have these approvals as a protection against liabilities in case of an accident.
If all the parts have a CSA or UL mark, it will ease the job to certify the whole machine. If there's a chance that the fire that destroyed your building was caused by bad wiring of a machine that was not approved, they may refuse to pay.
If all the parts have a CSA or UL mark, it will ease the job to certify the whole machine. If there's a chance that the fire that destroyed your building was caused by bad wiring of a machine that was not approved, they may refuse to pay.
Johnbu
I concur with Felix. Who did the CE mark? If its a reputable lab then they could offer to convert the CE report to a Canadian report for the provinces you wish to ship to if the data is current. You may need a third party in my IMHO but you can call CSA and ask also. Agencies arent adversarial normally (one blessing of a flat economy)but there is cost involved to you and your manufacturer but it depends on what you want to ship.
Dan
I concur with Felix. Who did the CE mark? If its a reputable lab then they could offer to convert the CE report to a Canadian report for the provinces you wish to ship to if the data is current. You may need a third party in my IMHO but you can call CSA and ask also. Agencies arent adversarial normally (one blessing of a flat economy)but there is cost involved to you and your manufacturer but it depends on what you want to ship.
Dan
You may want to check with ESA - a couple years ago we brought in a piece of equipment from Europe that had a CSA label on it , but when the inspector looked at it he had some issues ( mainly with the power and control wiring that had CE labels but no CSA approval markings- they wanted to know what standards the cable was tested to etc)- our own electricians had issues with the colour codes on the panel wiring) we ended up changing the power cables-If I remember the other issue was some of the original design components had been changed but never recertified
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HydroInspector
Electrical
THE MEANING OF THE CE MARKING
____________________________________________
A number of our customers are asking what the CE mark means in Ontario.
The CE mark means nothing from an approval point of view. The only acceptable approval marks are shown in the latest edition of Electrical Inspection Bulletin 2-7-16.
As background for our customers the following information may help them understand what the CE mark means:
CE marking is a short form for the French words: Conformité Européenne
The CE marking indicates conformance to all applicable safety directives (standards) at the time of entry to the European Union (EU). All that is required is a "manufacturer's declaration" that the product is in compliance.
This started on January 1, 1995.
The CE marking is accepted by 15 countries. (Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom).
Why do the above 15 member countries conform and put the CE mark on?
Products cannot legally be supplied into the European Union.
Products can be withdrawn if previously placed on the market.
Could result in imprisonment and/or fine .
Member states (countries) under legal obligation to implement.
If a CE mark is applied, then a "Technical File" should exist.
The technical file should have the following information:
Overall drawing of the machinery together with a drawing of the control circuits.
Full detailed drawings, test results, etc.
A list of the standards and other technical specifications used in the design of the machinery.
Methods adopted to eliminate hazards.
Any technical report or certificate obtained from a competent body or laboratory.
A list of harmonized standards and a technical report giving the results of tests.
A copy of the instructions for the machinery.
Tony Moscioni
Electrical Inspector
Electricial Safety Authority
Toronto, Ontario
____________________________________________
A number of our customers are asking what the CE mark means in Ontario.
The CE mark means nothing from an approval point of view. The only acceptable approval marks are shown in the latest edition of Electrical Inspection Bulletin 2-7-16.
As background for our customers the following information may help them understand what the CE mark means:
CE marking is a short form for the French words: Conformité Européenne
The CE marking indicates conformance to all applicable safety directives (standards) at the time of entry to the European Union (EU). All that is required is a "manufacturer's declaration" that the product is in compliance.
This started on January 1, 1995.
The CE marking is accepted by 15 countries. (Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom).
Why do the above 15 member countries conform and put the CE mark on?
Products cannot legally be supplied into the European Union.
Products can be withdrawn if previously placed on the market.
Could result in imprisonment and/or fine .
Member states (countries) under legal obligation to implement.
If a CE mark is applied, then a "Technical File" should exist.
The technical file should have the following information:
Overall drawing of the machinery together with a drawing of the control circuits.
Full detailed drawings, test results, etc.
A list of the standards and other technical specifications used in the design of the machinery.
Methods adopted to eliminate hazards.
Any technical report or certificate obtained from a competent body or laboratory.
A list of harmonized standards and a technical report giving the results of tests.
A copy of the instructions for the machinery.
Tony Moscioni
Electrical Inspector
Electricial Safety Authority
Toronto, Ontario
automatic2
Industrial
The certifying label will be placed on the enclosure that houses the inspected equipment. If you have a certification label on a power supply for instance, it does not imply the equipment that it drives is certified even if it makes up the larger structure.
We have had a battle with an American supplier who repeatedly claims that thier equipment is CSA, based on a sticker on a component within the structure.
The certifying identifier resides on the defining envelope. Schematics are also labeled to further describe the contents.
We have had a battle with an American supplier who repeatedly claims that thier equipment is CSA, based on a sticker on a component within the structure.
The certifying identifier resides on the defining envelope. Schematics are also labeled to further describe the contents.
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From the code book:
? 2-024 Approval of Electrical Equipment
(1) Subject to the other provisions of this Rule, electrical equipment is deemed to be approved if:
(a) A certification organization has issued a report certifying that the equipment conforms to the applicable standards for the equipment;
(b) The report referred to in clause (a) is available to the Inspection Department from the certification organization;
(c) The equipment complies with all standards of design and construction and all terms and conditions set out in the report; and
(d) The equipment bears the certification organization’s mark which identifies equipment certified for use in Canada.
? (2) As an alternative to Subrule (1) electrical equipment is deemed to be approved if:
(a) A field evaluation agency has examined the equipment or a sample and has found that it conforms to the applicable standards for the equipment and presents no undue hazard to persons or property;
(b) The equipment is within the scope of Section 3 of the Code, and within the field evaluation agency’s accreditation under the Standards Council of Canada Act and recognized by the Inspection Department;
(c) The equipment bears a label approved for use in either Ontario or Canada affixed by the field evaluation agency; and
(d) Where the field evaluation agency has examined only a sample, the equipment is of the same design and construction as the sample.
(3) As an alternative to Subrule (1) electrical equipment is deemed to be approved if:
(a) The inspection department has examined the equipment or a sample, found that it conforms to this Code and presents no undue hazard to persons or property;
?(b) The equipment bears a label affixed by the inspection department;
(c) Any fees payable to the inspection department in respect of the examination have been paid; and
(d) Where the examination and testing was of only a sample, the equipment is of the same design and construction as the sample.
(4) Where testing is required for the purposes of subrule (3), the inspection department may accept reports or other evidence of testing from a certification organization, a testing organization, a professional engineer, or other responsible qualified person.
(5) Electrical equipment that is used in or connected to an electrical installation may be inspected under Rule 2-004 , and it shall be deemed to be approved if:
(a) the installation and equipment pass the inspection; and
(b) persons or property would be adequately protected from any undue electrical shock or fire hazard as a result of the inspection.
? (6) No person shall affix to any electrical equipment an approval label that was not issued for that equipment.
? 2-026 Cancellation of Approval
(1) The inspection department may cancel the approval of electrical equipment if:
?(a) The equipment is not being manufactured or produced in accordance with all standards of design and construction and all terms and conditions set out in the certification report for the equipment referred to in Subrule 2-024(1) and (2) ;
(b) The equipment has been shown by field experience to be unduly hazardous to persons or property;
(c) An examination of the equipment or of the certification report for the equipment shows that the equipment does not comply with all applicable standards; or
(d) An examination of the certification report or the equipment shows that the equipment cannot be installed in accordance with this Code.
(2) When an approval has been cancelled, the equipment shall be deemed to be not approved; and
? (3) The certification organization or field evaluation agency shall make provisions to recall equipment that is deemed to be not approved
? 2-028 Miscellaneous
(1) The testing and inspection by the inspection department of any electrical equipment under Subrule (3) of Rule 2-024 may be carried out by such inspectors at such times and places and in such manner as the inspection department from time to time determines.
(2) Subject to Subrule (5) of Rule 2-024 , any electrical equipment used or capable of being used or adapted to serve or perform any particular purpose or function when connected to an electrical installation shall be approved before being so connected unless the connection is made for the purpose of inspection or testing of the equipment under this Code.
(3) Any electrical equipment that consists of an assembly or combination of other electrical equipment is subject to this Code respecting approval, and is not approved by reason only that any or all of the component parts thereof have been individually approved.
? 2-030 Deviation or Postponement
A deviation from or postponement of the requirements of this Code is lawful in respect of an electrical installation where adequate proof that the deviation or postponement does not create an undue hazard to persons or property under the circumstances has been provided to an inspector of that installation.
? 2-032 Damage and Interference
(1) No person shall damage or cause any damage to any electrical installation or electrical equipment.
(2) No person shall interfere with any electrical installation or electrical equipment in the course of alterations or repairs to non- electrical equipment or structures except where it is necessary to disconnect or move components of an electrical installation, in which event it shall be the responsibility of the person carrying out the alterations or repairs to ensure that the electrical installation is restored to a safe operating condition as soon as the progress of the alterations or repairs permit.
(3) No person shall remove any tag, seal or warning applied to an electrical installation or applied to electrical equipment by the inspection department from that electrical installation or electrical equipment without permission from the inspection department.
? 2-034 Use of Approved Equipment (see Appendix B )
No one shall use any electrical equipment other than approved electrical equipment of a kind or type and rating approved for the specific purpose for which it is to be employed.
? 2-036 General
No contractor shall perform any work on an electrical installation in any manner contrary to the requirements of this Code.
Bulletin 2-7-11 Approval of Electrical Equipment - Rule 2-024 (page 15)
The Ontario Electrical Safety Code recognizes certification organizations accredited by the Standards Council of Canada to approve electrical equipment. Only equipment bearing one of the marks or labels shown in the drawings is approved.
Equipment to meet the requirements of the Ontario Electrical Safety Code must be approved to Canadian standards. This is signified by the "C" outside the Entela, ETL, MET, OMNI, QAI, TUV Rheinland and UL marks. The “NRTL/C” shown with one Canadian Standards Association mark, and the “cULus” shown with one Underwriters Laboratories mark, indicate the equipment with those marks is also compliant with United States standards.
A Canadian Standards Association mark with "NRTL" only, and Underwriters Laboratories mark without the “c” at the eight o’clock position, indicates the equipment is compliant with United States standards.
? 2-024 Approval of Electrical Equipment
(1) Subject to the other provisions of this Rule, electrical equipment is deemed to be approved if:
(a) A certification organization has issued a report certifying that the equipment conforms to the applicable standards for the equipment;
(b) The report referred to in clause (a) is available to the Inspection Department from the certification organization;
(c) The equipment complies with all standards of design and construction and all terms and conditions set out in the report; and
(d) The equipment bears the certification organization’s mark which identifies equipment certified for use in Canada.
? (2) As an alternative to Subrule (1) electrical equipment is deemed to be approved if:
(a) A field evaluation agency has examined the equipment or a sample and has found that it conforms to the applicable standards for the equipment and presents no undue hazard to persons or property;
(b) The equipment is within the scope of Section 3 of the Code, and within the field evaluation agency’s accreditation under the Standards Council of Canada Act and recognized by the Inspection Department;
(c) The equipment bears a label approved for use in either Ontario or Canada affixed by the field evaluation agency; and
(d) Where the field evaluation agency has examined only a sample, the equipment is of the same design and construction as the sample.
(3) As an alternative to Subrule (1) electrical equipment is deemed to be approved if:
(a) The inspection department has examined the equipment or a sample, found that it conforms to this Code and presents no undue hazard to persons or property;
?(b) The equipment bears a label affixed by the inspection department;
(c) Any fees payable to the inspection department in respect of the examination have been paid; and
(d) Where the examination and testing was of only a sample, the equipment is of the same design and construction as the sample.
(4) Where testing is required for the purposes of subrule (3), the inspection department may accept reports or other evidence of testing from a certification organization, a testing organization, a professional engineer, or other responsible qualified person.
(5) Electrical equipment that is used in or connected to an electrical installation may be inspected under Rule 2-004 , and it shall be deemed to be approved if:
(a) the installation and equipment pass the inspection; and
(b) persons or property would be adequately protected from any undue electrical shock or fire hazard as a result of the inspection.
? (6) No person shall affix to any electrical equipment an approval label that was not issued for that equipment.
? 2-026 Cancellation of Approval
(1) The inspection department may cancel the approval of electrical equipment if:
?(a) The equipment is not being manufactured or produced in accordance with all standards of design and construction and all terms and conditions set out in the certification report for the equipment referred to in Subrule 2-024(1) and (2) ;
(b) The equipment has been shown by field experience to be unduly hazardous to persons or property;
(c) An examination of the equipment or of the certification report for the equipment shows that the equipment does not comply with all applicable standards; or
(d) An examination of the certification report or the equipment shows that the equipment cannot be installed in accordance with this Code.
(2) When an approval has been cancelled, the equipment shall be deemed to be not approved; and
? (3) The certification organization or field evaluation agency shall make provisions to recall equipment that is deemed to be not approved
? 2-028 Miscellaneous
(1) The testing and inspection by the inspection department of any electrical equipment under Subrule (3) of Rule 2-024 may be carried out by such inspectors at such times and places and in such manner as the inspection department from time to time determines.
(2) Subject to Subrule (5) of Rule 2-024 , any electrical equipment used or capable of being used or adapted to serve or perform any particular purpose or function when connected to an electrical installation shall be approved before being so connected unless the connection is made for the purpose of inspection or testing of the equipment under this Code.
(3) Any electrical equipment that consists of an assembly or combination of other electrical equipment is subject to this Code respecting approval, and is not approved by reason only that any or all of the component parts thereof have been individually approved.
? 2-030 Deviation or Postponement
A deviation from or postponement of the requirements of this Code is lawful in respect of an electrical installation where adequate proof that the deviation or postponement does not create an undue hazard to persons or property under the circumstances has been provided to an inspector of that installation.
? 2-032 Damage and Interference
(1) No person shall damage or cause any damage to any electrical installation or electrical equipment.
(2) No person shall interfere with any electrical installation or electrical equipment in the course of alterations or repairs to non- electrical equipment or structures except where it is necessary to disconnect or move components of an electrical installation, in which event it shall be the responsibility of the person carrying out the alterations or repairs to ensure that the electrical installation is restored to a safe operating condition as soon as the progress of the alterations or repairs permit.
(3) No person shall remove any tag, seal or warning applied to an electrical installation or applied to electrical equipment by the inspection department from that electrical installation or electrical equipment without permission from the inspection department.
? 2-034 Use of Approved Equipment (see Appendix B )
No one shall use any electrical equipment other than approved electrical equipment of a kind or type and rating approved for the specific purpose for which it is to be employed.
? 2-036 General
No contractor shall perform any work on an electrical installation in any manner contrary to the requirements of this Code.
Bulletin 2-7-11 Approval of Electrical Equipment - Rule 2-024 (page 15)
The Ontario Electrical Safety Code recognizes certification organizations accredited by the Standards Council of Canada to approve electrical equipment. Only equipment bearing one of the marks or labels shown in the drawings is approved.
Equipment to meet the requirements of the Ontario Electrical Safety Code must be approved to Canadian standards. This is signified by the "C" outside the Entela, ETL, MET, OMNI, QAI, TUV Rheinland and UL marks. The “NRTL/C” shown with one Canadian Standards Association mark, and the “cULus” shown with one Underwriters Laboratories mark, indicate the equipment with those marks is also compliant with United States standards.
A Canadian Standards Association mark with "NRTL" only, and Underwriters Laboratories mark without the “c” at the eight o’clock position, indicates the equipment is compliant with United States standards.
If you want to talk to someone at Ontario Hydro about the matter, perhaps this can help:
individual%20pages%20for%20web/21%20Ontario%20Hydro.pdf
individual%20pages%20for%20web/21%20Ontario%20Hydro.pdf
Something that I have noticed about Italian and other European machinery is that the wires sizes are smaller for a given load than what US and Canadian electrical codes require. Some of it is that European equipment uses tin plated stranded wire which is more likely to have all the wire strands conducting than plain copper stranded wire. Some of it is that factory installed terminals for US equipment is limited to 75 or 60 degrees Celsius even if the terminal itself is marked 90 deress Celsius. This is mostly a matter that US and Canadian standards require larger safety factors a.k.a. ignorance factors.
Italian electrical motors also seem to a be a bit skimpy as well too.
Mike Cole
Italian electrical motors also seem to a be a bit skimpy as well too.
Mike Cole
stephenweinstein
Mechanical
1. Why not just replace the wires?
2. Make sure you have adequately dealt with the issue of different voltages and frequencies (transformers can correct the voltage but not the frequency).
3. The EU has been 25 countries, not 15, since before the post that lists 15 countries.
2. Make sure you have adequately dealt with the issue of different voltages and frequencies (transformers can correct the voltage but not the frequency).
3. The EU has been 25 countries, not 15, since before the post that lists 15 countries.
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