can't find a job 1

[PFF]

Hi All,

I'm a statistician (age 59) who retired early to return to school to finish engineering degree. Went to an ABET school finished an AAS in EE. Been looking for a job for 15 months. No one will hire me. Is it the economy? My age? Lack of experience? Have I wasted my time pursuing my dream?
It's been a terrible experience. One place I interviewed the hiring engineer called told me he loved my resume but when I went for the interview he said to me "I'm looking for someone younger".
Is that all this comes down to?

 

[IRstuff]

That's going to part of it. The other part, of course, is the AAS. Generally, the industries have established a BS as the minimum threshold for hiring.

What did you do when confronted with, "I'm looking for someone younger?" Did you respond as if you were not younger? Attitude is a huge part of selling job. You are selling a product, namely, yourself. As a statistician, you surely know all the stats about what makes people want to buy things, but also, ageism, both overt and covert. You've met the enemy, and you now need to use the tools and skills you've learned over a lifetime to battle the enemy.

The bottom line is that there are lots of younger engineers who are hunting for jobs as well. How are you distinguishing yourself from them? Your last line seems to indicate a severe lack of energy, i.e., why are you not asking how could you buck "this?"

TTFN
faq731-376

 

[MadMango]

You have to wonder if "younger" means "less experienced" (lower starting pay) since age discrimination is supposed to be illegal.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of these Forums?

 

[ajack1]

Not wishing to sound rude but why would anyone take on a 59 year old with no experience?

 

[DRWeig]

PFF,

If you happen to be in the US, I would respond a little more strongly to "I'm looking for someone younger." In the interview, I would have confronted that statement with something like, "You know, in fairness to both of us, I am compelled to point out that there is a law against age discrimination." If a concession was not forthcoming, I would go straight to the EEOC. Being over 40 years old, you're in a protected class. Your age can actually be a benefit in a job hunt, especially with the larger companies who are keenly aware of the discrimination laws and the consequences for violating them.

Them's my thoughts. My former companies had very good policies that required special attention to protected classes and thorough documentation of reasons if they did not get an offer.

If you're not in the US, I apologize for the rant. Check your jurisdiction's laws.



Good on ya,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

 

[TheTick]

I can't find a delicate way to say this. AAS is only half a degree. Statistician? What's that? Crunching numbers for an insurance company? Did you have a degree before this?

If you have experience with statistics, you could go into quality (QC).

 

[TheTick]

Now that I'm at a full-size keyboard and can type like a human...

In the bulk of industry, AAS degree is barely entry-level, and employers are looking for young ones for drudge work and to be groomed for bigger things. They are looking for people with a longer horizon. I don't think it's as much about money as it is about potential.

There are places that have little regard for engineering, and will hire just about anybody but and engineer to do their engineering work.

Again, with a background in statistics, you would be ideal for quality assurance type work.

 

[qmechanics]

Thanks for all the "candid" responses. Okay I was asked about my background BS & MS mathematics with emphasis in dynamics systems (differential eq) and Probability and Statistics. Nearly completed a PhD in Operations Research but could not stand school any longer. I have over 300 credits and am tired of taking classes. Worked for 32 years at a University as a researcher. Did some teaching. I believe this is a major negative. There are those who believe any academic work is the same as being faculty. IT IS NOT. I worked my butt off like anyone else. Nonetheless, this fallacy prevails.

Started in EE when first in college in 1971. Worked as an EE technician for two years (mid 70's) and switched to mathematics after being convinced by the EE engineers I worked with that engineering would be a waste of my time. Ha. I've always loved EE and wanted to return to it. However, I would prefer to work as a technician at this time. I really enjoyed that work. I can complete a BS anytime only need a few more classes. One issue is cost. Another time and to finish will cost a lot of money and I'm not working! I need a job but am running into a constant stream of rejection letters. I am high energy, work hard and am very productive. I have a positive attitude but none of it seems to matter. I have a lot to offer and haven't stopped designing and building my own equipment since the late 1960's.

So what I'm hearing is to go the Quality Route. Done some of that. Pretty easy stuff as I recall. What is required from an industrial viewpoint? What qualifications are they looking for? Six sigma? ASQC? After 15 months of looking the frustration is becoming overwhelming. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[MiketheEngineer]

If you can document that they "wanted someone younger" Bingo - you just hit the jackpot.

Call your lawyer!!

 

[qmechanics]

Easier said than done Mike. It will end up being his word against mine. But, he did say right to my face "I was hoping for someone younger that would grow with the company". What a dolt! That was November 9th 2011. The time limit to file a complaint may have elapsed.

 

[TheTick]

You might also consider project manager positions.

 

[IRstuff]

Seems like you're doing well; there are sob stories galore with guys spewing out dozens of resumes and not even getting so much as a phone interview.

Your background seems to be well suited for systems engineering, given that you must know at least some amount of physics and EE. You're from about the same generation as me, and the traditional route for math majors was programming. while you probably haven't done enough programming for a standard CS job, creating mathmematical models and algorithms for a small engineering group might also be a good fit.

TTFN
faq731-376

 

[qmechanics]

IRstuff, I've applied for well over 100 positions. Average a dozen or two a week! It's tedious but I won't give up just because it's difficult. Had about 27 phone interviews and maybe 12 in person. Still no job though. The last one told me I was over qualified? What a load of crap! What the heck does that mean? That there's some upper limit of experience? That "your so good we hired someone less qualified?" How am I supposed to become less qualified? What it really is is my age. Sooner of later I'll find a place that doesn't care about how old I am but does care about what I can do.

 

[IRstuff]

"Overqualified" tends to mean something different, i.e., they think they can't afford what they think you'd want for a salary.

It's generally frowned upon, but one way out of that is to state what your salary goal is, bearing in mind that you will be starting as a new engineer.

TTFN
faq731-376

 

[jmcoope3]

It's a tough time to graduate with an engineering degree in the states to begin with. I graduated in spring 09 and it took me until December 2010 to get my first gig (a tentative hourly spot as an estimator at a company my friend worked at). It was far better than making sandwiches and delivering pizza, but it took a lot of fighting and hard work to get to Design Engineer.

The first two years are hard to get, and will take a lot of ass kissing and string pulling to get access too. With a background like yours and the "protected sector" thing that everyone's been talking about... i'd push military contractor (unless you have a background that would prevent that). The money is good and they are constantly being scrutinized, mom-and-pop engineering shops will probably constantly be a shut-down (they want people they can trick into working for just about nothing) and the bigger engineering firms always can pull the "more qualified applicant" card (seeing that a single posting might get 5000+ resume's).

Good luck and welcome to the recession.

 

[qmechanics]

Thanks guys. IRstuff, I did state my salary expectations as part of the application. They had that and it was low. I just want to get started. I'll solder wires if that's what it takes to get started but I can't even get that. Geez. jmcoope3, 5000+resumes? Are you serious? For one engineering job? Where did you hear this? A reliable source? That is terrible if true.

 

[KENAT]

Big national/International companies that advertize online and have their own E recruiting systems etc. can indeed get ridiculous amounts of resumes.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[Twoballcane]

Saw this and thought about this post....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2012/08/06/seven-job-search-tips-if-youre-over-50/

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
“Luck is where preparation meets opportunity”

Perception is reality: Your reality is how others perceive you, not how you think of yourself.

 

[qmechanics]

Thanks for the input. Perception is perception and is often incorrect. Speaks to the shallow society we current exist in. I'm not a quitter and will persist until I succeed. It's just a bit more difficult this time around.

 

[lacajun]

It is shallow but I don't think that's it as much as it is perhaps the economy. A friend said we're in a depression, which I agree with. He's a business owner with a Ph.D. in ChemE so he knows a few things. Companies seem to be window shopping more than anything else.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC