CAREER ADVICE REQUIRED: 8years experience Structural group leader/Lead vs Senior Structural Engineer 1

[KeViV0525]

8 years Exp total

I was at a really small firm, where for 1 year what all I did was steel detailing, check shop dwg's and then got experience in designing of buildings (category 5 wind) for 4 years. I really feel like I was too long at this place for terrible pay ($58k/year after 5 years ). After that, started working for about 3 years as Structural Engineer in water/waste water, getting $85k. Recently passed PE, nominal 6% increase at current place. I want to make up for my first 5 years now.

Now, I got one offer for 125k, but the role is structural engineer group leader/Lead and they are expecting me to start a team and develop it. Ofcourse, it depends on if I can find the right people etc. The Senior Managers found to be very supportive in interview process and they really need a Structural Engineer for their Business in my state. This company ($400 mil) has good business in transportation, power & other areas; But desperately looking to increase it's business in water/waste water. The second offer ( company with multiple business areas - power, nuclear etc; $300mil) I got is around $115k as Senior Structural Engineer but in Energy Industry in which water is also included. I was told I will be working in Renewable Energy as they are looking to increase market in it. This is going to be new industry to me. They also offer complete remote position.

I am VERY CONFUSED now. I am inclined now for first one as it is a familiar industry. I told them, I can join in 3 months and until then I'll grasp all the knowledge & Calcs, etc from my current firm. I was said I am good with people, so hopefully I can manage the "management" part of the new role, but little furious about signing & sealing at new role, as I am not confident enough. I said I can sign & seal like 6months to a year after I join them, after I get familiar with the firm master specs, details, QA/QC etc. Should I go for it ?

Any advice, I'd really appreciate, please pour in fellow STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS.

KeViV

 

[rb1957]

do you want a technical career or a management one ?

do you want to focus on solving technical problems or people and budget problems ?

management is it's own skillset ... good engineers often make lousy managers.

Both offers look really good.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[rb1957]

do you want to be the band leader, the 1st violinist, or the drummer (up the back, out of sight) ?

do you think you're a good judge of people ?

if you're going to be interviewing (for your team), do you have ideas of the questions ?

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[IRstuff]

I personally suck at managing people; both times I've had to manage a group, I hated it.

The bell-curve of people means that there will always be someone at the left end of the curve who is difficult to manage and consumes the bulk of your energies.

Additionally, managerial responsibilities is not what I went to school to learn and practice, AND I don't particularly find doing that stuff enjoyable; things like schedules and budgets and reports are not fun for me.

YMMV, of course.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[dik]

same here... that's why I've stuck to the 'trenches'.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[KeViV0525]

Highly appreciate the responses from you fellow engineers. To answer @rb1957, yes I think I can judge people and questions at interviews are easy, but finding the right people for the right job is tough, for example structural CAD personnel. I understand engineers are not that great managers, but I want to give it a chance. @IRstuff, At least now I want to explore that "manage people, schedule & reports" now rather than later in life. If I don't like I might go back to Senior Structural Engineer position. The only thing that gets me furious is signing & sealing and be a subject matter expert, I'd be more comfortable if I can lean on someone in really new/weird scenarios. There are other senior structural engineers but in other sectors of the company, few who also helped in waste water/ water projects.

KeViV

 

[rb1957]

"questions at interviews are easy" ... oh, that's a bit of a red flag ...

"furious" ... 2nd time you've misspelt "curious" ... first time may have been FF (Fat Fingers).

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[dik]

Decades back, I was talking to a manager about how they select good engineers... He said it was mostly luck.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[DrZoidberWoop]

Make sure you consider the full picture. Part of interviewing and hiring is also firing. Some people can't handle having the ability/responsibility of ending someone else's income, in deference to what's best for the company/firm. In management, you'll have to adjust to the "HR" mindset because the well-being of the company/firm is your priority, not just winning/completing jobs.

 

[KeViV0525]

@DrZoidberWoop & @dik, thanks and appreciate your positive responses.

@rb1957. My first language isn't English, don't worry abt questions at interview.. I am confident that I can handle it. I didn't mean furious/curious I guess, I am trying to say I am not so confident of signing & sealing or I am getting anxiety on that issue. Please add any positive if you can, Thanks !

KeViV

 

[DaveAtkins]

Not sure why you are nervous about sealing and signing drawings. You have the education and experience, and the company will have an errors and omissions insurance policy, so they will have your back.

DaveAtkins

 

[fel3]

KeViV...

You are young and an engineer, so I can understand the lack of confidence even if you are good at what you do. It comes with the territory for most of us who are engineers. In fact, a certain amount of paranoia about your engineering work is healthy. That lack of paranoia is what sunk (literally) OceanGate's Titan submersible. So, as long as you are better than you think you are, you will be fine.

One thing that helped my confidence when I was a young engineer decades ago was working in a company (mid-sized for the time) that had a robust QA/QC program. So, even though the best reviewers can miss things (sometimes even important things), knowing that a very experienced engineer was reviewing my work gave me confidence that the final product that went out the door was a very good product. Not perfect, of course, but very good. Unfortunately, not every company has a robust QA/QC program, even if they claim that they do (I know this from experience). So, I suggest that you inquire into the specifics of these two company's programs (policies, implementation, enforcement, etc.) so that you can determine if either company should be disqualified for you on this basis.

Good luck,
Fred

============
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill

 

[dik]

Thanks for the appreciation. The doc had useful information... mine was simply an anecdote...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[StrucPatholgst]

It sounds like both are good opportunities. But make sure you have the people skill sets in a bag ready to go. Don't try to invent a version of yourself that didn't exist before your first day at the new job.

 

[KootK]

I said I can sign & seal like 6months to a year after I join them, after I get familiar with the firm master specs, details, QA/QC etc.

While that is a gloriously ethical position to take, that statement leads me to suspect that you may struggle in a management role. Pretty much every MBA type / successful manager that I know would not bat an eye at stamping anything produced by their team so long as it passed internal QC protocols (if they exist) and was remotely within their experiential wheelhouse. And that includes me.

This, I think, reflects a skewing of priorities towards the business imperative that tends to be a requirement for successful engineering managers.

That said, perhaps you should give management a try regardless of your native proclivities. Nobody -- including you -- knows with certainty whether or not you will succeed in that role. And it's not as though you can't switch to something else if it doesn't work out. Taking a tour at the helm might just be something that you need to try once to get it out of your system.

Fortune favors the bold, right? Just kidding. Survivorship bias means that fortune really only favors those who are:

a) Bold enough to succeed but;

b) Not so bold that they die and are simply never heard of again.

 

[WARose]

The best advice I can give you is: make sure you understand what your day-to-day role actually is. (And only you know if you are good for it.)

I say that because a lot of these places have all these titled positions....and quite frankly, they mean something different from place to place.

Good Intel on a place is a start. Ask around. Glassdoor.com is another good source.

 

[KeViV0525]

@KootK. I follow your posts and they are great always. Appreciate your insight about how manager's don't bat an eye when it comes to sign & seal. I Did observe that as well. I am not aware of how QA/QC procedures, specs, etc in new firm. At my current place, they are great as far as I know/heard, as they have been in the same industry about 90years and a legacy firm in what they do. Yes, I am giving management a try because I was said "I am good with people" and I want to learn this skill, IT's NOT EASY, I get it. With technical you have Yes/no, but in dealing with people, it is different with everyone.

@fel3, yes I'd love that and I am hoping that some one can review my design, I'll try to reiterate that after joining. I am sure they know, that I got licensed recently and I do not have experience as EOR.

any advice to future structural lead from Structural Leads/Managers here, how to manage schedule, people, budget etc ?

KeViV

 

[KootK]

any advice to future structural lead from Structural Leads/Managers here, how to manage schedule, people, budget etc ?

Depending on your perspective, one of the nice / gross things about engineering management is that it's not much different from management in any other field. Schedule, people, budget...

As such, the world is utterly overflowing with books that you can read on those topics. I have the two books shown below and recommend them.

I would also highly recommend attending one of PSMJ's Principal's Bootcamp seminars. That's a great way to get your feet wet. I attended that seminar 12 years into my career and, truly, ought to have attended back when I was an EIT. You really need that information to plan your career from the start, not at the middle.

@KootK. I follow your posts and they are great always.

Thanks, that's kind of you to say. At the same time, recognize that the community of folks at this forum will be self selected to be reluctant / poor managers. Almost by definition, I would say that someone with 5+ years of experience who spends a lot of time here is probably not a "natural" as a business person. I doubt that you have appreciated my posts over the years because of my remarkable business savvy. If you have... run. There are, of course, exceptions to every trend.

 

[DaveAtkins]

any advice to future structural lead from Structural Leads/Managers here, how to manage schedule, people, budget etc ?

I find a weekly, Monday morning meeting with my staff is a must. We talk about workload, pursuits, who needs help, who is available to help someone else, and anything else which is relevant, such as required training, etc.

The company I work for has a FANTASTIC Excel based program for tracking schedule and budget on every project. As a Project Manager, I check the status of my projects on a weekly basis, lest things go awry. For example, if you find you overspent on the design phase, you know you will need to be careful with hours during the construction phase.

One thing I am not very good at yet, but is necessary as a PM, is to track ANYTHING which is out of scope. This does not mean you ask the Client for a Change Order every time something out of scope pops up, but it results in a good list which you can use in negotiation with the Client.

DaveAtkins

 

[KeViV0525]

this is such a valuable advice. The out of scope thing, I've observed many Project Managers dealing subtly with the owners, that is a skill too. So, all these skills I want to learn and willing to work hard. I am looking for something like these kind of advices. Currently at my working place we do have a Tuesday morning biweekly meeting about Project Status etc. But I guess at my new place. it will take a while to set up this as I will not have a team immediately.




KeViV