Career advise 2

[Calif]

Hello everyone:

I am looking for career advise. I am a structural engineer with a little over two years experience. I am interested in working for an architectual/engineering firms. What kind of skills should I be adding to repetoire to head in this direction. I have a bachelor degree in civil engineering with classes in Reinforced Concrete and LRFD Steel design. Should I take classes in Timber and Prestressed Steel design? How much would a master degree help in this field and what classes should I take to head in this direction. Is it better to begin with a firm that is big or should I start with a small firm so can have more responsibility.

Any help you can provide is appreciated.

Thank you

SIncerely

Kmat

 

[electricpete]

Fair enough buzz. I guess I was just bashing the non-PE's bashing the PE's bashing the non-PE's bashing the.... oh forget it.

One thing I will say is that the electrical PE is by no means limited to electrical distribution. Look at the green PE prep book by Yarbrough... it covers the same areas as the test. That would include stuff like transistors, op-amps, analog amplifiers, a/d & d/a coversion, instrument loops, control systems, frequency response, wave analysi, economic analysis etc. I am guessing if you are electrical your job has something to do with the above.

 

[buzzp]

I am somewhat guilty of not knowing exactly what is on the PE exam. I only know in the EE product design world a PE license does little for you. I am certain there are some cases where it may. I just do not know of any.

For those that do not know, I would like to get my PE when time allows. I may get the chance with my new employer. I will likely get it to keep my future options open. I never said a PE was a bad thing just that it had little benefits for some EE designing products that a PE might specify.

 

[electricpete]

I see your point. As far as the personal benefit for people in exempt industries, PE is not much more than something to put on your wall and resume.

My advice to anyone contemplating the PE is apply for the PE exam at the earliest time you are eligible. Even if you're not sure about the test you might surprise yourself. On top of that I think you get two or three attempts with one application fee.... if the first one doesn't work just consider it a practice.

 

[oxilume]

To Dannym
You stated:
"The state I live in and many states (and I believe Canada also) require that you have a P.E. in order to represent yourself as an engineer. A company cannot give you a job title with "Engineer" in it unless you have a P.E."

I guess the US Navy is wrong for calling a nonPE, an Engineering Officer.

PE or NO PE - Engineering Degree or English Degree - you are not going to sit in the hot seat unless you have your Engineer Officer Of the Watch Letter. We call it EOOW letter.

Also, it is unlikely you will ever command a ship without an EOOW letter. Do you think all of those Navy Ship Captains have engineering degrees much less PE's?

Likewise, all the shipalts and engineeng manuals used on Navy ships were written in blood! It is the 17, 18 and 19 year old sailor at sea that has to live with the mistakes made not only by the PEs but also by the policy that dictates lowest bidder builds the ship or supplies materials.

So to all the PEs, Non PE Design Engineers and others, put yourself in the shoes of a sailor down in the engineroom smelling diesel fumes, because of a faulty ventilation system, and all of a sudden the ship goes dark and quiet because of a faulty circuit card in the Woodward Electronics Governor Control!

I firmly belief that EITs should have to operate what they are going to design for at least 2,000 hours - Notice I didn't use years. Ask a pilot how long it takes to log 2,000 hours of flight time?

Ask an EOOW how long it takes to log 2,000 hours in the hot seat! At least 5 deployments that are 9 months long each, with 6 to 9 months between deployments!

So, the next time you slap your PE stamp on a set of wastewater treatment plans, think about how many hours you have operating an actual plant!

Also, when you design a shipboard fuel system and slap your PE stamp on it, don't forget that the Navy is required to take on fuel from third world countries. Yep, everytime that happened, we went through 50 cases of coelescer filters - Forget it - just bypass the coelescer filter when the delta P alarm goes off - tired of changing out filters - Oh we can bypass the alarm switch so it doesn't register on the data logger!

Signing Off

 

[buzzp]

Well Electricpete I have had my EIT (FE now?) since I graduated. I am not to concerned with passing the PE exam with a little bit of study. I have always been a good tester.

 

[electricpete]

I was pretty sure you'd have an easy time on the PE test. (I believe the PE test is still called the FE.)

Again my advice to anyone is apply as soon as your are eligible. Another reason for that is that the process takes a long time... paperwork including waiting for references, board review and exam timetables.

 

[BobPE]

electricpete, the EIT = FE, its an attempt to eliminate the term engineer from the title of EIT. I think its all rather stupid, but nontheless, its the law.

buzzp, just take it cold, you may be surprised!!! IF you dont make it the first time, its a great study prep.



BobPE

 

[buzzp]

Well thanks for the advice. I plan to check into as time allows.

 

[Calif]

Its funny how the original post which started out asking for career advise has change into a discussion on EIT and what is a real engineer. Well, I have my EIT, Bachelor degree in CIvil Engineernig and I guess, I am not considered an engineer. But maybe engineering is more about getting that piece of paper. Some of the best engineers did not have the degree yet the desire to use talents to build great structures.

Although engineering has been downgraded to getting a piece a paper, I hope we dont forget that being in engineer is more than the paper.

Sincerely,

Kmat

 

[buzzp]

Good point Kmat, star for that.

 

[zqew05]

I AM NOT AN ENGINEER, also 49 yrs old but wiser. I am taking pre-engineering classes for an eventual degree in Mechanical Engineering. I work as a gas turbine technician and doing very well even though I only have a High School diploma...and no, I'm not on the road all the time. With old age comes life experiences. One of the experiences I gained is... there are highly paid Engineering jobs out there. Having worked with many Engineers, I've noticed a trend in my industry in that those guys who want to know multiple fields of knowledge (Jack of all Trades) are somehow paid less than those who find a niche no one else wants. Engineers in my industry don't work out of offices, they usually work in coveralls out in the field. They don't do manual labor but go out to work with us lesser beings, and in that process they end up being called first for any new projects or to solve problems no one else can fix. It is because everyone knows them, compared to the guy who'd rather work at headquarters building. One common trait of our Engineers is they hate office work, so they have an admin assistant who mans the office when they are away 60% of the time. It's a double-edged sword; ya gotta love what ya are doing if you intend to be in a niche job.

 

[electricpete]

I'd have to agree with the last comment.

When there is a big-dollar problem with equipment, management doesn't always trust their local plant staff. They like to hire an outside expert with 30 years experience in that particular technology/equipment to come in and tell them the same thing.

I have been through 10 or 15 of these from the plant staff side. Last one cost $11,000 for three days. I have to say only one or two gave anything I considered useful (most of them confirmed what we were saying). Two of them set us backwards with dubious recommendations that I disagreed with... guess who management believed.

Sorry for the attitude creeping in. The point is that if you have some claim to being an expert in a field, people will pay you big dollars whether you are worht it or not.

 

[zqew05]

That is absoutely correct. Bosses also have bosses they report to, and if the facility boss is responsible for a multi-multi-million dollar investment, they will shell out big money to make sure things get done right. Even with all my experiences, it is comforting to management that whatever I am doings is validated by an Engineer. Guess which Engineer is being called to validate my work... yes.... the Engineer in coveralls who physically walks around and listens to teh worker bee's complaints/suggestions. Both sides end up learning something new in every visit. The Engineer asks me what I intend to do, he nods his head or disagree on some points, we arrive at a plan of action, then everyone is happy. I learn something new from him and vice versa. My point is this... with word of mouth reputation comes a proportional increase in income; management will give the job to an Engineer they are comfortable with. Even though in my niche job I am doing well financially, my kids inspired me to get a degree. I have great respect for all you guys/gals in this forum who took the time in getting that "piece of paper on the wall". I wish I had your maturity in my younger years.

 

[zqew05]

Sometimes, it is not because they don't trust their plant personnel. Management just wants a second point of view when dealing with million dollar machinery

 

[nfaber]

If this thread is any indication of where engineering is going in the next 5 years, I'm worried. A young engineer asks for career advise and the conversation quickly disintigrates into a back-biting squabble about the merits of being a PE.

What next, tag team cage matches like the WWF?

Grow up!

Simple career advise: Get the PE. Then get the masters.

Don't forget, the Apollo moon landings were engineered by a bunch of people with BS degrees and a lot of common sense. No PE certificates, few masters or Phds.

 

[RDK]

Kmat

To get back to your original question. You want to work for a architectural/engineering firm. Then go and apply to a LOT of them.

Your career is a lot like the Nike slogan, Just Do It!

Make finding a job a full time job in itself. Research the companies find out as much about them as you can and find out who is the decision maker in your area of interest. Go to the office and ask for a few minutes of that person’s time. Be ready to sit and wait for a couple of hours. When you meet the person demonstrate your knowledge of the firm by asking some pertinent questions about a recent project. Ask for a job or an opportunity to demonstrate your skills and ability in some capacity.

Have another firm in mind for tomorrow; repeat as required until you get an offer.

Don’t waste a lot of time taking a lot of courses because someone said that you need this knowledge to work in this area. Just start working in this area and you will quickly find out what areas you need some more training in. You can then take a course of simply go to the local university bookstore, buy the textbook and class notes (sometimes they are available from the internet) and start studying. Formal courses are often a much more time consuming method of acquiring knowledge that self study. Find a mentor in each area that you can ask questions and get help in some difficult areas. This is a never ending process.

Self-study also has the advantages of not tying you to ant particular schedule that may not suit your needs.

Stop wasting time banging on the keyboard, go out and get the job you want by finding where it is and asking for it.




Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[zqew05]

Amen Rick. You hit it right on the head

 

[rsjanzenmartin]

Rick,

Thanks for your response to the original question. I am also currently looking for other employment options and I would like to know if you have any specific suggestions as to how to "research a company" besides looking at their web page?

 

[RDK]

A lot depends if this is a large firm or a small firm. For a large publicly traded company there should be a wealth of information out there. Smaller firms will be more difficult to find out a lot of information.

You can check them out in the financial press. (Written and on-line)

Do a google search for the firm; they may be mentioned in some other chat rooms etc.

Also do a google news search for any current references to them in the news.

Talk to current and past employees of the firm.

If it makes a consumer product look them up in the consumer product reports.

Contact the Better Business Bureau.

Contact any industry and professional associations in the area of the firm’s operation.

Talk to the recruiting office at your local university. They will be especially helpful if you are a new graduate but they may have some information on the firm.

Talk to others who are familiar with the firm’s product (salesmen users of the product etc)

Contact the firm’s PR department directly. Take everything that they send you with a grain of salt. Ask about industry trends and new projects.

Contact the firm’s investor relation department directly as well. Get a copy of the annual report. If they recently made a public offering there should be a copy of the prospectus available. Read all the fine print in that no matter how painful. Financial disclosure laws are very strict.

Finally contact the firm’s HR department. Ask about new employee policies, employee development policies. You can say that you are doing some research on the trends and practices in the industry. (Not a lie, just be a little circumspect on why you are doing the research.) You an also say that you are an applicant and ask that you are looking into the firm to be prepared for an interview.

Use your imagination and follow up on any leads that you get from these sources.

Good luck




Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com