Career change: a new industry / moving from Germany to the U.S. 2

[KristianS]

Hi everyone, towards the end of last year I decided to make a change to my career and move to the U.S. Unfortunately the economic crisis became worse soon after which has left me wondering about job security, changing industries and my chances of finding an employer willing to sponsor me.

Before I ask my questions, here’s a bit of background. I’m Australian and graduated from an Australian university with a BSME. After graduating I left Australia to work in Germany designing end of line testing systems for a production technology company (mainly for automotive parts). I worked there for 3.5 years before moving to a tier one supplier, also in Germany, designing semi-active dampers for passenger vehicle applications where I’ve been for the last 3 years.

Due to the way the economy is right now I’ve been applying for jobs in other industries, such as medical device and electronics (hardware), and mainly in southern California. Although I haven’t sent a large number of applications away I haven’t received any positive feedback, or feedback at all yet.

Whilst it’s understandable that job security in the automotive sector isn’t at a particular high right now, what is it like in other industries, such as the one’s I previously mentioned? According to the O*Net Online website Mechanical Engineers are currently in demand.

Something else I’d like to know is, is it at all common for a company in the U.S. to sponsor a foreign worker?

While I’ve read a number of articles about the current job situation in the U.S. it’d be nice to hear what it’s like directly from other mechanical engineers.


Kristian

 

[casseopeia]

Here's a pretty good website that may get you some answers. I'm not in your industry and in a couple of weeks, I'll be among the ranks of the unemployed here in California.

http://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/

Thingsin CA are pretty rough right now. I'm concerned that my unemployment check is going to be an IOU, nothing but a promissory note. The information I get from my stock broker is not to expect too much until Spring 2010, and then the recovery will be very, very slow. His opinion is that we are in a full depression.

Start just contacting industries or companies you want to work for and at least get the ball rolling. I would not move here until the economy is decidedly going back up, or you risk getting laid off then having to move back if you do not find a new sponsor.

Good Luck



"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[gwolf2]

You'd probably be better off back in Germany. At least they still have an automotive industry.

Times are tough, no such thing as job security. Aerospace is a bit quiet too - the design phase of quite a few big projects is basically finished and there's not that much in the pipeline.

Last year I went back home (UK), renewed my SC, and went nuclear in the expectation of little aerospace work and a tendency towards nationalistic recruiting policies. I have seen no sign of the latter but when times are tough I think it has to be a factor. The more feathers in your cap the better right now.

Nuclear is busy if not exactly booming yet. Renewables based on big hardware (like wind and tidal turbines) are on the cusp - its difficult to see which way these will go in the short term.

gwolf.

 

[KENAT]

KristianS , I'm in SoCal (well, maybe a touch to the North) in high tech scientific instruments/semiconductor and the job market doesn't seem great.

We've had a lot of lay-offs and a lot of those people are having trouble finding work.

My company has sponsored a lot of people but they were typically either brain trust types or interns as cheap labour.

If I were you, this wouldn't be the time I'd be headed out this way.

If you lose your job you have X days to find a new job or leave the country (or maybe marry a local lass but that's not as easy as you may think, been there done that).

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[mgtrp]

If you're not too attached to the location (California), you might try north of the border - there seems to be a bit more going on there, and Canada is fairly immigrant friendly. If you're still under 30, you can get a two-year work visa very easily, more than enough time to prove yourself to a prospective employer/sponsor.

 

[moltenmetal]

Forget about Canada- the recession is world-wide and commodity prices have snuffed out Canada's previous boom.

Indeed Canada IS very immigrant-friendly, but we're also in denial about the strength of our own labour market. There are still 5,000 engineer principal applicant immigrants (i.e. plus yet more who come as dependents of principal applicants or as refugees or asylum-seekers) coming to Canada yearly versus a total Canadian grad rate of 10,000 or so per year. We're in a severe recession, yet the economic immigration rates have not been reduced. And we make no attempt whatsoever to match the influx of immigrants to labour force demand on a profession- or region-specific basis.

Have a look at

http://www.geocities.com/martinsmoltenmetal/index.htm

or at the Engineering and Technology Labour Market Study Interim Report, particularly p. 19, before you decide whether or not to immigrate to Canada as an engineer.

http://etlms.engineerscanada.ca/media/Interim Report.pdf

Canada has so many people now with engineering educations that only 1/3 of them work "in the engineering field" much less as actual engineers. It is no surprise therefore than less than 25% of Canadian engineer grads go on to professional engineering licensure.

Canada's a great country with many things to recommend it, and thousands do succeed in landing an engineering job yearly. But if you choose to immigrate without a firm job offer in hand before you come, and you end up without a job in your chosen field after a few years, you should not be surprised- you'll be in good and plentiful company.

 

[KristianS]

The outlook seems to be quite bleak, but all the same, thanks for all the info and your perspectives.

@casseopeia: we're slowly starting to hear the same things from our board of directors. At first the prognosis was that we'd be getting back on track in the second half of 2009. Now they're saying some time in 2011.

The chance of being laid off after moving to the US is disturbing, especially since a move back to Germany is out of the question. While people haven't been laid of in masses (yet) no one is hiring here, and probably won't be for at least the next year. The job market in Australia seems to be equally bleak for engineers.

@gwolf2: interesting that you say the aerospace industry is quietening down. I have the impression that aerospace companies are hiring steadily now (based on the number of jobs I've seen offered in the SoCal area). Maybe the message is taking a while to trickle down to HR.

@KENAT: when you say brain trust types do you mean highly qualified people? I'm surprised that your company would bother organising a visa for interns as I've heard that there are quite a few hurdles to jump through to sponsor someone. As much as I don't want to admit it, and as much as I want to leave Germany, I think you're right about it not being the right time to head over to the U.S.

 

[KENAT]

By brain trust types I mean folks typically with a PHD that have some history of publishing/doing leading edge research in our field. I'm not necessarily talking about just a fairly smart engineer.

On the intern thing, our program was through some kind of organization, almost like an exchange student type thing. It may even have been covered by education visas not H1B, I'm not sure of the details. However, we've all but finished this program as times are tough.

On the Aerospace and Defense jobs, don't take what you see at face value. Some of the jobs may not be real, they may hire in advance of getting a govt contract to prove they have employees to do the work, then let a lot of them go once they do get the contract to maximize profit. Also some of the govt jobs are almost paperwork exercises, they wont 'find' anyone suitable and will then shift the job to the East coast closer to Washington.

Then there's the whole security clearance thing. Without a clearance you can't work most defense programs or even in the same area that that work is taking place, so many 'aerospace' jobs end up needing a security clearance. Last I heard there was a backlog on clearances, so in some cases they'd rather hire a barely qualified candidate with an existing clearance than have to get a new clearance for a qualified person.

Oh, and in case you were thinking you could get one of these jobs, to get a full clearance you need to be a US citizen, usually just a US citizen not dual citizenship. In theory you can get cleared for a specific program even if not a US citizen but in practice these days they don't seem to do it a lot. I'm not sure even Von Braun could have got a clearance since 911;-).


KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[thruthefence]

Von Braun shouldn't have gotten a clearance anyway.

 

[KristianS]

The security clearance / citizenship problem is something I've run across already. I've found a few jobs relevant to my experience in the past only to read the last line of requirements "Must be a US citizen" or "Must possess active security clearance".

Ironically, I was just contacted by a head hunter who has a potential job in Canada. While I was hoping to move somewhere a little warmer than Germany it might be worth considering.

In the last couple of days two German head hunters have contacted me with jobs in Germany which was quite unexpected considering the current state of things here. Some reports have you thinking that the economy is falling apart, others show that BMW for example sold 20% less cars this year in June compared to last year. When you consider that car sales were at an unexpected high last year and exceeded everyone's expectations 20% isn't that bad.

 

[Gymmeh]

kristian,

Its to bad i just bought a house or I would trade jobs with you, I kinda want to move to Central Europe ;-)

how many days of vacation do you have?

 

[KristianS]

Central Europe? What draws you here?

The working conditions here in Germany are quite good. 30 days of holiday per year are standard, on top of that there are between 9 and 13 public holidays in Germany depending on the state you live in. Most companies also have either what I think is known in the USA as flexi time (meaning that you can trade your overtime for time off) or paid overtime.

From what I've seen it's almost impossible to lose your job as an engineer here unless you do something that borders on extreme negligence or steal from the company, which unfortunately also tends to keep a few bad apples in the basket.

There are other advantages and disadvantages to living here, but all in all from the countries I've visited so far I have to say that the USA has the most to offer from my perspective.

 

[cry22]

Kristian
I would not recommend Canada (mentionned here as a possible immigration destination) even to my worst enemy.
No work, no money, and Cold as hell. How people live in that part of the world is beyond my imagination.

As a German, you will feel right at home in the US, even the food is the same as in Germany, complete with Octoberfest and all.

Most German architects and Engineers I met or worked with in the states do quite well. Germans in the US enjoy a very good reputation as inteligent and hard workers.

USA used to be almost German land isn't it? Did you know that the English language won by ONE vote as the official US language instead of German when it came to chosing between English and German some centuries ago?

 

[KristianS]

I can plead guilty to having German work experience, but I'm actually Australian. I've heard from a couple of people in the US that German engineers have good reputations there. Let's hope that applies to people with German experience too.

 

[thruthefence]

Not that I have anything against the Teutonic race, having a few in the "woodpile" myself, but this one vote business is a sort of proto 'urban legend,' to wit;

David Crystal’s (1987) The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language (p.365):

Probably the best-known myth in the history of language planning is the story that German nearly became the national language of the U.S. in the 18th century, losing to English by only one vote in the legislature (the ‘Muhlenberg’ legend). In fact, all that was involved was a request, made by a group of Virginia Germans, to have certain laws issued in German as well as in English. The proposal was rejected by one vote, apparently cast by a German-speaking Lutheran clergyman, Frederick Muhlenberg (1750-1801). But the general status of English as the major language was never in doubt. (After Heath, S.B. & Mandabach, F. (1983): Language status decisions and the law in the United States in: J. Cobarrubias & J.A. Fishman (eds), Progress in language planning: international perspectives (Berlin, Mouton), 87-105)

good luck in your job search!

 

[cry22]

thruthefence
Thank you so much for your post.
I, and several other people I am sure, all stand corrected.

 

[FeX32]

Hell.....we have Octoberfest in Canada every year.....
And it's not that cold. Engineers in Canada are one of the most respected in the world I might add (particularly the ones educated in Canada).
'Cry' for awareness is what we need here.



Fe

 

[FeX32]

Oh yea, and there is plenty work. But none for the ignorant.

Fe

 

[cry22]

Been there FeX (well, been in Montreal)
Plenty of work in there for the blond/blue eyes, not much work for foreigners without the AA (All American) look, and sine I am not one of those AA guys, you get my drift... so, don't "cry" for me, Canada.

I do appreciate your sense of humor though, even if I resent being treated as ignorant.

Keep smiling, and may be we all should refrain from criticism.

PS: IT IS COLD AS HELL up there.

 

[FeX32]

Cold as hell 'eh'. I always pictured hell as this hot fire-filled place.

I will be honest, your comment about the AA guys never crossed my mind. I like to think of Canada as a very culturally diverse place.
After all just because you appear like an AA guy does not mean you are an intellect. In fact, the most respectable engineers I know are no where near an AA.

P.S. thanks for appreciating my humor, most people I know don't get it. As for smiling, no one could wipe it off my face if they tried.



Fe